If you have vac’d all the dirt in the protection zone, and gone deeper than you
need, then when you are laying the fiber or the conduit, you are no longer
excavating at that point, especially with machinery. You are simply placing
the facility in a ditch.
Even if you are drilling, the drill passing through an empty void in the earth
is not excavation.
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 12:26 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
I said it poorly. I was thinking more about the “visual contact” rule.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 2:23 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com>
Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
I pothole 100%. Crazy expensive not to.
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 10:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
“theres law and then theres what guys do.”
I had a boss who gave a long speech about how the law is written vs how the
policy for enforcement is written vs how the court interprets it, and how it
can change at each step along the way. I heard the same speech every time I
brought up that something he’s doing might be illegal. I can summarize his long
winded speech as, “It was legal if I got away with it.”
That may not be how we’d like things to be, but it’s true in a practical sense.
The only time I saw a roofer on a house with a tied off safety harness was Mike
Holmes when he was on TV. The speed limit is 55mph unless everybody else is
going 65mph. And I suppose how much you pothole for buried pipes becomes
irrelevant if you didn’t hit any of them.
-Adam
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 4:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
theres law and then theres what guys do. here its 18 inches either side of the
outside of the mark.
Reason why im anal about this is not liability, sure the guy who didnt pothole
is liable, but that irrelevant to the fact that the water is hit. if my pipe is
40 inches and an accurate utility locator is used, i want it reading at 40
inches, not 30 or 24 cause the trace was sloppy. Everybody from start to finish
should always do their jobs accurately, but operate under the assumption that
the guy before and the guy after did not and will not
On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 3:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote:
Here, you have to pothole until you see the gas line. I tell my guys that if
they have gone deeper and side to side to cover the whole 24” protected zone
then we are good to go. But technically the Utah law says you have to have
“visual contact” with the thing you are crossing.
From: Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 1:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
the vertical concern is based in the real world. A guy will believe his
locator and not pothole.
by attached i mean a wrap or tape if its trench. you can get any pipe you
want to pay for. i dont know what plumbers can get embedded
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:56 AM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:
Ohio is 18 inches and some people tell me neighboring states are 24 inches
horizontally.
>The bug concern is vertical
That's what I'm talking about - if you're below or above the 3 inch pipe,
that's a 3 inch variance.
>If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product
Can you get tracer wire built onto plumbing pipe?
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 5:01 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:
if youre paying to be able to trace, that trace should be exact, no
tolerance on installation. My locator it most of the time dead on. The bug
concern is vertical. If the pipe is sitting at 48" but the trace is coiled up
to 24, some yahoo isnt gonna pothole and drill under it. Nobody gives a shit
about liability when their utility is blasted, they want their utility back on.
A sloppy trace also causes cut tracers that dont get spliced. We are supposed
to pothole to the side of the mark to avoid hitting the utility top on.
If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 3:25 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:
How big of a pipe would it have to be for that to be a concern? I
would think ~3 inches of variance is within the spec of the locator.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 4:20 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:
stand over them when theyre putting it in to make sure they dont just
randomly toss it in the open trench. you dont want it toning out at a different
depth/horizontal because it coiled up. especially if theyre doing a wide trench
excavation.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:39 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com>
wrote:
All these seem to be UF
https://www.plumbersstock.com/water-works/tracer-wire.html
From: Carl Peterson
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 10:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire
reccomendations/experience.
We specced safe-trace with 1800lb pullback strength for our current
project and will likely makenthat the standard for anything drilled in moving
forward. Not sure it is overkill.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF
<af@af.afmug.com> wrote:
14 gauge is rugged and will last. I think the gas company out
here uses 14 gauge. 20 gauge on up is not terribly strong. UDOT recently
changed their spec for the tracer molded into MD7 microduct from 20 gauge to 14
gauge.
From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 9:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire
reccomendations/experience.
Don't you have some random copper laying around? Our fiber
tracer wire is 24 awg. Just place the conductive wire in the same hole as the
water/sewer lines. The color is kind of pointless but I guess you could spend
the money and follow the rules *shrug*.
If the wire ends the locate ends. Why not just extend the wire
with the new pipe?
14 gauge seems like way too big if you ask me, that's a lot of
money down that new sewer line.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:31 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
I'm working on doing specs for a project (home) which will
require burying new water and sewer lines on the property.
I'm tired of not being able to locate these after they're
buried so I plan on having the contractor bury some tracer wire along with the
plumbing.
I've learned that the best option for things like this is to
either spec or provide exactly what I want buried. Otherwise you'll end up
with some inexperienced contractor which installs something which won't work.
Apparently the choices for tracer wire are far more varied than
I had expected. Insulation, metal type, gauge, color, and so on.
It looks like 14AWG copper HMWPE might be what I'm looking for.
But there are other options as well. Does any of this work better or is
less (or more) likely to be damaged in a way which makes it untraceable? I'm
assuming green and blue will be needed for sewer and water.
I don't think the following will apply, but there is also the
possibility that at least one of the lines won't terminate at one end anywhere
that we can poke the wire up above the ground (tapping into existing line) I'm
assuming that one can resolve this by laying a ground rod in the trench and
terminating to that.
Any other things I should watch for here?
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PORT NETWORKS
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Baltimore, MD 21202
(410) 637-3707
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