wealth transfer? Im not rich. Last year when contemplating going out
on my own and opening up shop one of the huge factors was insurance.
The plan I got quoted was going to run me around 450 a month to cover
me and my kids with a comparable amount of coverage to what i was
getting through work. I went last week to see what the cost was, the
only thing remotely close has 3 times the deductible and higher copays
for close to 900. I guess maybe im misunderstanding what rich is, I
was under the impression I was not, financially at least, in spirit,
im filthy rich. Is it my spirit that defines my rich/poor status? I
dont have the wealth to deliver to the poor in spirit.
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Collin, socialized medicine or socialized anything doesn’t work.
What happened to the idea that Capitalism built the greatest
country and the greatest health care in the world. Why does
everybody forget that and keep wanting to go back to the failed
systems in Europe, Socialism, Communism.
Costs go up because of attorney’s and the technology behind our
health care. If you want cheap health care, get rid of MRI
machines, genome cancer treatments, laser surgeries, AiDs drugs,
Hepatitis drug research, etc… If all you want is an aspirin and a
hug, you keep holding to the idea that socialized medicine is a
great idea.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:41 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Amen brother Conlin.
The way I see it, the biggest problem is that ObamaCare didn't go
far enough. We really, really need to have a system that gets a
handle on the costs. The cost to US citizens is more than double
the cost to other developed countries.
Just peruse this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/charts-health-care-costs-americans_n_2957266.html
bp
On 10/9/2014 5:12 AM, Paul Conlin via Af wrote:
What did people expect? Insurance companies are the house.
They always make money. By accepting pre-existing conditions
everyone else’s premiums go up. By definition. The only way
health insurance can work is if it is universal (code for
mandatory). Can’t have people who can do math, like Chuck,
opting out. Or healthy people saying no. Everyone in.
Everyone pays. Spreads out the costs.
ObamaCare was never about controlling costs. It was about
increasing coverage. More coverage costs more. Why are
people surprised at this? If you want to control costs you
have to redesign the way money flows. Our system of providers
and insurance companies is **designed** to maximize heath
costs. It is a positive feedback loop. What is needed is a
single payer system, like Canada, where one paying party can
have maximum leverage to minimize costs and who has limited
ability to raise taxes. It is a proper (negative) feedback
system that has inheritably more control. Canada, for the
record, is not privatized health care like the VHA. In fact
it is the opposite. The Government of Canada purchases all
its healthcare from private entities, like Medicare. A fact
yet to be discovered by the media in the USA.
It is hard to understand why the Republican’s hate ObamaCare
since it was mostly their idea. Well, other than ObamaCare was
championed by Obama and I guess that is enough reason. The
basic concept to use the free market and let industry to its
thing is normally what Republican’s want. Not to mention its
inherent ability to make more money for insurance companies
and private industry. Sure, they are upset that it is being
used as a wealth distribution system that makes people with
money pay more and people without pay less. Ok, so that is
two reasons they hate it.
The mistake made, was not implementing a single payer system
simultaneously with universal coverage. The CBO calculated
the saving from the former would pay for the later resulting
in no increase in out-of-pocket costs. Then the other
benefits of such a privatized system would start to kick in
and the open market competition for services will drive costs
down. With health care general health would improve and costs
would go down even more.
Unfortunately the Government is dysfunctional and has zero
chance of overcoming the trillions of dollars companies are
making off of the existing out of control health care system.
And if they could pass the laws, would anyone trust our
Government to run such a program? And there is the root problem.
Obviously an over simplification but now back to my real job.
PC
Blaze Broadband
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory
Conaway via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
People with pre-existing conditions are one of the few groups
benefitting from this.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
We pay about the same as we did but our deductible is lower,
our out of pocket max is lower, and they covered our
pregnancy. We switched during the first trimester because we
didn't have maternity coverage (no self-insured plans in our
state had it), and Obamacare made pregnancy not count as a
pre-existing condition. It saved us about $7,000-$8,000 this
year. The craziest part is that we actually stayed with the
same provider, Select Health (IHC). It was just the
difference between them providing maternity and not providing
maternity. We have been very happy with our Obamacare.
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Further the subsidies have been deemed unconstitutional, so
they're forcing us to pay insurance with the promise of
subsidies that they are now going to take away.
Bait and switch.
The whole thing has been a screwup from day one.
It is actually cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than pay
for this insurance, but the fines will get you either way.
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Rory Conaway via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:*Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:03 PM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
And so did the quality and options of your care. I know
that 2 of my doctors retired early and the other one
doesn’t take Obamacare. Fortunately I don’t have to use it.
Here is my question though, doesn’t the fact that the
federal government wasted a couple billion dollars of your
taxes on websites that don’t work, companies that are
paying workers to do nothing, and companies that are
friends with the First Lady with no bid process in place?
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Please don't forget that this whole "obamacare" thing was
"invented" by the American Heratage Foundation which is a
republican think tank. And the republicans tried to
squash "Hillarycare" with it in the 1990's.
Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.
Also, so far in the states that set up their own exchanges
medical costs and premiums have been going down...mine
sure did :)
2cents
Sean
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af
<af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Hi...
I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed
to "save everyone money" and provider "better health
care". We just received our group health insurance premium
notice for the upcoming year, and our rates will go up by
10% starting 2015.
On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax
on their personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem
like much of a savings to me... :(
Travis
--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
