We were paying more, something like $1500. On self insurance that went below
$750 for the same coverage.
From: Travis Johnson via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 11:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
We currently pay about $1,200/month for our benefits package, per employee (and
family). That's health, dental and vision.
Travis
On 10/9/2014 10:54 AM, That One Guy via Af wrote:
wealth transfer? Im not rich. Last year when contemplating going out on my
own and opening up shop one of the huge factors was insurance. The plan I got
quoted was going to run me around 450 a month to cover me and my kids with a
comparable amount of coverage to what i was getting through work. I went last
week to see what the cost was, the only thing remotely close has 3 times the
deductible and higher copays for close to 900. I guess maybe im
misunderstanding what rich is, I was under the impression I was not,
financially at least, in spirit, im filthy rich. Is it my spirit that defines
my rich/poor status? I dont have the wealth to deliver to the poor in spirit.
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Rory Conaway via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote:
Collin, socialized medicine or socialized anything doesn’t work. What
happened to the idea that Capitalism built the greatest country and the
greatest health care in the world. Why does everybody forget that and keep
wanting to go back to the failed systems in Europe, Socialism, Communism.
Costs go up because of attorney’s and the technology behind our health
care. If you want cheap health care, get rid of MRI machines, genome cancer
treatments, laser surgeries, AiDs drugs, Hepatitis drug research, etc… If all
you want is an aspirin and a hug, you keep holding to the idea that socialized
medicine is a great idea.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Amen brother Conlin.
The way I see it, the biggest problem is that ObamaCare didn't go far
enough. We really, really need to have a system that gets a handle on the
costs. The cost to US citizens is more than double the cost to other developed
countries.
Just peruse this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/charts-health-care-costs-americans_n_2957266.html
bpOn 10/9/2014 5:12 AM, Paul Conlin via Af wrote:
What did people expect? Insurance companies are the house. They always
make money. By accepting pre-existing conditions everyone else’s premiums go
up. By definition. The only way health insurance can work is if it is
universal (code for mandatory). Can’t have people who can do math, like Chuck,
opting out. Or healthy people saying no. Everyone in. Everyone pays.
Spreads out the costs.
ObamaCare was never about controlling costs. It was about increasing
coverage. More coverage costs more. Why are people surprised at this? If you
want to control costs you have to redesign the way money flows. Our system of
providers and insurance companies is *designed* to maximize heath costs. It is
a positive feedback loop. What is needed is a single payer system, like
Canada, where one paying party can have maximum leverage to minimize costs and
who has limited ability to raise taxes. It is a proper (negative) feedback
system that has inheritably more control. Canada, for the record, is not
privatized health care like the VHA. In fact it is the opposite. The
Government of Canada purchases all its healthcare from private entities, like
Medicare. A fact yet to be discovered by the media in the USA.
It is hard to understand why the Republican’s hate ObamaCare since it was
mostly their idea. Well, other than ObamaCare was championed by Obama and I
guess that is enough reason. The basic concept to use the free market and let
industry to its thing is normally what Republican’s want. Not to mention its
inherent ability to make more money for insurance companies and private
industry. Sure, they are upset that it is being used as a wealth distribution
system that makes people with money pay more and people without pay less. Ok,
so that is two reasons they hate it.
The mistake made, was not implementing a single payer system
simultaneously with universal coverage. The CBO calculated the saving from the
former would pay for the later resulting in no increase in out-of-pocket costs.
Then the other benefits of such a privatized system would start to kick in and
the open market competition for services will drive costs down. With health
care general health would improve and costs would go down even more.
Unfortunately the Government is dysfunctional and has zero chance of
overcoming the trillions of dollars companies are making off of the existing
out of control health care system. And if they could pass the laws, would
anyone trust our Government to run such a program? And there is the root
problem.
Obviously an over simplification but now back to my real job.
PC
Blaze Broadband
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway via Af
Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
People with pre-existing conditions are one of the few groups benefitting
from this.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy via Af
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
We pay about the same as we did but our deductible is lower, our out of
pocket max is lower, and they covered our pregnancy. We switched during the
first trimester because we didn't have maternity coverage (no self-insured
plans in our state had it), and Obamacare made pregnancy not count as a
pre-existing condition. It saved us about $7,000-$8,000 this year. The
craziest part is that we actually stayed with the same provider, Select Health
(IHC). It was just the difference between them providing maternity and not
providing maternity. We have been very happy with our Obamacare.
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Glen Waldrop via Af <af@afmug.com> wrote:
Further the subsidies have been deemed unconstitutional, so they're
forcing us to pay insurance with the promise of subsidies that they are now
going to take away.
Bait and switch.
The whole thing has been a screwup from day one.
It is actually cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than pay for this
insurance, but the fines will get you either way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rory Conaway via Af
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
And so did the quality and options of your care. I know that 2 of my
doctors retired early and the other one doesn’t take Obamacare. Fortunately I
don’t have to use it.
Here is my question though, doesn’t the fact that the federal
government wasted a couple billion dollars of your taxes on websites that don’t
work, companies that are paying workers to do nothing, and companies that are
friends with the First Lady with no bid process in place?
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett via Af
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare
Please don't forget that this whole "obamacare" thing was "invented" by
the American Heratage Foundation which is a republican think tank. And the
republicans tried to squash "Hillarycare" with it in the 1990's.
Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.
Also, so far in the states that set up their own exchanges medical
costs and premiums have been going down...mine sure did :)
2cents
Sean
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014, Travis Johnson via Af <af@afmug.com>
wrote:
Hi...
I'm not sure exactly how this ObamaCare thing was supposed to "save
everyone money" and provider "better health care". We just received our group
health insurance premium notice for the upcoming year, and our rates will go up
by 10% starting 2015.
On top of that, everyone is now paying a 3% ObamaCare tax on their
personal income taxes. This doesn't really seem like much of a savings to me...
:(
Travis
--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't
get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a
hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
