So you're saying that you really don't think North Korea is the ideal society?! :P
On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > the paying the government to protect us is tongue in cheek, see the > attached image of greatness being supreme leader of nation peace through > obedience, disarmament making for no death shoot, imperial scum see > dominance in masterful power and soon dominate simple worlds > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Sam Morris <w...@csilogan.com> wrote: > >> Couple of things here Patrick...and I mean these comments respectfully. >> >> The SCOTUS disagrees with your interpretation of the Second Amendment, as >> do roughly 120 million gun owners in America. The opinions of liberal >> scholars means exactly squat. >> >> Also, the first ten amendments (the Bill of Rights) can *not* be altered >> without abolishing the entire US Constitution. >> >> Getting back to the OP's question - I've carried everything from a .45 >> Glock 19 Gen 4 to my Israeli-made .50 cal Desert Eagle. I'm a big dude so I >> can get away with the larger guns and concealment. I stopped carrying the >> DE only because I didn't want to shoot the bad guy and kill three good guys >> standing behind him. >> >> And I will say this to which whomever it was who said we pay the >> government to protect us: At the same event where you and I met (in St >> Louis) Patrick, I was walking back to my hotel (two blocks from the event) >> after a long night of training and networking. It was about 1:00 am. As I >> was walking back, two of St. Louis' finest citizens (dirtbags) approached >> me, making it very clear that they weren't selling girl scout cookies. When >> they were about 50 yards away I took out my Glock and racked a round (I >> won't carry hot because as someone else mentioned here it doesn't have a >> safety). When these two scumbags heard that cartridge rack, they turned and >> bolted. I saw nothing but assholes and elbows. >> >> I didn't have to point my weapon at them or even show it to them, much >> less fire it. However, had I not had it with me, I have every reason to >> believe I'd likely not be here typing this to you. >> >> Sam >> >> >> On 12/7/2015 11:41 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: >> >>> Yawn. The general population never made that boast until the NRA in the >>> 1980s changed their tactics to spur slagging gun sales. They moved the >>> conversation to patriotic themes, talk of freedom, and other pabulum >>> gobbled up by folks. Contrary to popular “conservative” thinking, this >>> is not settled law. In fact, even Scalia has been clear it’s quite open. >>> Part of the issue is the meaning of “arms” and “keep” and “bear,” as >>> well as the limits therein. But, even more important is how modern gun >>> advocates neglect the entire first part of that amendment and pretend it >>> does not exist at all, when rather, it is, in fact, the entire modifying >>> context of the latter part of the sentence. >>> >>> I quote; >>> >>> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free >>> State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be >>> infringed." >>> >>> The NRA has done yeoman’s work pretending that part of the amendment >>> does not exist. The “well regulated militia” is the subject, not guns. >>> The rest of the sentence is the modifier. “People” in this case are >>> represented by each state’s militia. >>> >>> There is a significant opinion among many scholars that individual >>> citizens have no right at all to a gun. >>> >>> Secondly, no right is absolute. Government even grants itself the >>> authority to regulate our inalienable rights (capital punishment, etc.). >>> Amendments can also be altered, like the idiot 18^th , in the face of >>> changing realities. The reality of then was a muzzle-loaded, single fire >>> musket. >>> >>> And, even if anyone wants to play elementary games and claim literalism, >>> good luck with that, as that same text says nothing about ammunition, >>> keeping and bearing LOADED arms. >>> >>> Patrick >>> >>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick - >>> Lists >>> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 12:10 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy >>> and why >>> >>> Since when is a discussion of our legal, Constitutional rights >>> "pathetic" Patrick? We are talking about a tool, like any other, that >>> can be used to protect ourselves and others. WISPs are often out in >>> remote places in the dead of night...or at inner city data centers. >>> They are vulnerable. I know that one person on this list would likely >>> not be here right now if he hadn't been able to show a gun to someone >>> that was about to bash him with a baseball bat outside a data center. >>> >>> Jeff Broadwick >>> >>> ConVergence Technologies, Inc. >>> >>> 312-205-2519 Office >>> >>> 574-220-7826 Cell >>> >>> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com <mailto:jbroadw...@converge-tech.com> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 11:58 AM, Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@telrad.com >>> <mailto:patrick.le...@telrad.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I’ll just note this is a pathetic thread to have in any society that >>> considers itself civil. Hell, even in the “wild west” the local law >>> had people check their weapons into the sheriff when they came into >>> town. In fact, formerly, states like Texas lead the country in >>> banning open carry. >>> >>> “All the more surprising, then, that Texas was the first state to >>> ban its citizens from carrying handguns, a restriction that remained >>> on the books for 125 years.” >>> >>> http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/First-to-ban-open-carry-Texas-could-be-one-of-5974401.php >>> >>> And just read this scholarly article from 1999: >>> >>> *Gun Control and the Old West* >>> By Ross Collins >>> History News Service <http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~hns/index.html>, >>> >>> Summer 1999. >>> >>> The smoke has cleared, and we peer down at the victim: another gun >>> control bill, shot full ‘o holes. Just like in the old horse operas: >>> a hero again shoots to protect a precious freedom, America’s right >>> to bear arms. For many who keep a romantic image of America’s past, >>> gun control is like that, a battle steeped in American tradition. It >>> calls us back to those legendary days of the Old West, when cowboys >>> defended their honor and their horses by way of their Colts >>> . >>> In fact, most historians see the cowboys of the Old West as THE >>> defining heroes of 20th-century America. He’s used to sell >>> everything from soap to hats. He’s apparently also an ideal American >>> for anti-gun control groups: gun shows and gun advertising promote >>> from a distinctive Old West flavor. >>> >>> Today’s anti gun control forces count their strongest support among >>> society’s leaders from the states that once formed part of the Old >>> West. >>> The actual Old West pioneers of historical fact viewed matters >>> differently, however. They would certainly hail the campaign to >>> protect an American right to bear arms, but the record puts them >>> behind "moderate, common-sense measures" for gun control—the very >>> kind that President Clinton has proposed. >>> >>> Pioneer publications show Old West leaders repeatedly arguing in >>> favor of gun control. City leaders in the old cattle towns knew from >>> experience what some Americans today don't want to believe: a town >>> which allows easy access to guns invites trouble. >>> What these cow town leaders saw intimately in their day-to-day >>> association with guns is that more guns in more places caused not >>> greater safety, but greater death in an already dangerous >>> wilderness. By the 1880s many in the west were fed up with gun >>> violence. Gun control, they contended, was absolutely essential, and >>> the remedy advocated usually was usually no less than a total ban on >>> pistol-packing. >>> The editor of the Black Hills Daily Times of Dakota Territory in >>> 1884, called the idea of carrying firearms into the city a >>> “dangerous practice,” not only to others, but to the packer himself. >>> He emphasized his point with the headline, "Perforated by His Own >>> Pistol." >>> The editor of the Montana’s Yellowstone Journal acknowledged four >>> years earlier that Americans have "the right to bear arms," but he >>> contended that guns have to be regulated. As for cowboys carrying >>> pistols, a dispatch from Laramie’s Northwest Stock Journal in 1884, >>> reported, "We see many cowboys fitting up for the spring and summer >>> work. They all seem to think it absolutely necessary to have a >>> revolver. Of all foolish notions this is the most absurd." >>> >>> Cowboy president Theodore Roosevelt recalled with approval that as a >>> Dakota Territory ranch owner, his town, at the least, allowed "no >>> shooting in the streets." The editor of that town's newspaper, The >>> Bad Lands Cow Boy of Medora, demanded that gun control be even >>> tighter than that, however. Like leaders in Miles City and many >>> other cow towns, he wanted to see guns banned entirely within the >>> city limits. A.T. Packard in August 1885 called "packing a gun" a >>> "senseless custom," and noted about a month later that "As a >>> protection, it is terribly useless.” >>> >>> Old West cattlemen themselves also saw the need for gun control. By >>> 1882, a Texas cattle raising association had banned six-shooters >>> from the cowboy's belt. "In almost every section of the West murders >>> are on the increase, and cowmen are too often the principals in the >>> encounters," concurred a dispatch from the Texas Live Stock Journal >>> dated June 5, 1884. "The six-shooter loaded with deadly cartridges >>> is a dangerous companion for any man, especially if he should >>> unfortunately be primed with whiskey. Cattlemen should unite in >>> aiding the enforcement of the law against carrying of deadly >>> weapons." >>> >>> This echoes President Clinton’s reaction following the failure in >>> Congress of the most recent gun control proposals: “The American >>> people will not stand for this.” So far they have, however, as >>> recalled by the record of defeated attempts to legislate control. As >>> U.S. Rep. Martin Sabo (D.-Minn.) noted, “there’s broad public >>> support for it, but he opponents are much more intense about it.” >>> >>> The Old West’s leaders who argued for gun control knew that a long >>> time ago. Their arguments sound as contemporary at the end of this >>> century as they were earnest at the end of the last. But despite >>> them, few packers have been persuaded to put away their pistols, >>> then or now. >>> >>> Copyright 2004 by Ross F. Collins >>> <www.ndsu.edu/communication/collins >>> <http://www.ndsu.edu/communication/collins>> >>> >>> Wayne LaPierre sure has done his job well. He’s made most of you >>> fooled into thinking owning a gun is a patriotic act without you >>> realizing you are just another tool for raking in the dough. He’s >>> been so successful he’s converted gun ownership into a religious >>> issue, to point that whether or not you own a gun is highly >>> predictive of your being an evangelical Christian. >>> >>> >>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/is-gun-ownership-christian/2013/01/25/c7afe7fe-6724-11e2-93e1-475791032daf_story.html >>> >>> Patrick >>> >>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum >>> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 11:38 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to >>> buy and why >>> >>> I carry a Colt 45 Defender. It is relatively small for a 45. An NSA >>> buddy of mine, who had been in several close range shootouts in his >>> career asked me one time why I carry a 45. I told him that I'd never >>> been in a firefight. I don't train in high pressure situations, and >>> while I'm proficient at the range, I don't train for situations like >>> he did or the cops do. If I am in a situation where I have to pull a >>> gun, my adrenaline is going to be pumping like crazy, and I may be >>> moving to cover or trying to stay out of the way of bullets myself. >>> I may only hit what I'm shooting at once if I'm lucky. I want the >>> once to count. >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:30 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm >>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> define legally >>> >>> If a bear shits in the woods, will tight shoes cause callouses? >>> >>> I dont know why any of you want these killing machines, the >>> government has guns, and we pay them to protect us. Your gun, if >>> you hand it to a bad guy, is 100% of the time going to be in the >>> bad guys possession, and if that bad guy happens to be 5, youve >>> just given a child a handgun, are you saying we should arm >>> children? Why are you trying to kill children, children are the >>> future, teach them well and let them lead the way. >>> >>> Imperialist scum be furthering decline humanity. Mighty leader >>> will devour you in fear. >>> >>> <image002.jpg> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com >>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Can you legally own hand grenades? >>> >>> *From:*Mathew Howard <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >>> >>> *Sent:*Monday, December 07, 2015 9:15 AM >>> >>> *To:*af <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>> >>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - >>> which to buy and why >>> >>> you do if you want to conceal it... :P >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Chuck McCown >>> <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: >>> >>> You don’t need a CC to carry a Springfield 30-06.... >>> >>> *From:*Paul McCall <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net> >>> >>> *Sent:*Monday, December 07, 2015 9:03 AM >>> >>> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>> >>> *Subject:*[AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - >>> which to buy and why >>> >>> I am getting my CC permit (Florida) in a week or so. I >>> took an absolutely excellent class from the main trainer >>> at the Brevard county sheriff’s office. >>> >>> Now, I am looking for an excellent CC gun to use, as my >>> long barrel Colt 38 is not a good fit for that. >>> >>> I am certain that this group probably has a LOT of >>> expertise (and many opinions) on THE gun to use. >>> >>> J >>> >>> Paul McCall, Pres. >>> >>> PDMNet / Florida Broadband >>> >>> 658 Old Dixie Highway >>> >>> Vero Beach, FL 32962 >>> >>> 772-564-6800 <tel:772-564-6800> office >>> >>> 772-473-0352 <tel:772-473-0352> cell >>> >>> www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/> >>> >>> pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see >>> your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of >>> the team. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>> computer viruses. >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>> computer viruses. >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>> computer viruses. >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> = >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>> computer viruses. >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> >> > > > -- > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team > as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >
