Proof it's all fake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BotDYFR9ULk
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > Uh uh, nope, I have proof... > Video proof... doesn’t get any better than this! > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlVHe_aPsv0 > > > *From:* Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > *Sent:* Monday, December 07, 2015 11:34 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy > and why > > It's all fake!!! > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> Their supermarkets are very well stocked... >> >> *From:* Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, December 07, 2015 11:30 AM >> *To:* af <af@afmug.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy >> and why >> >> So you're saying that you really don't think North Korea is the ideal >> society?! :P >> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> the paying the government to protect us is tongue in cheek, see the >>> attached image of greatness being supreme leader of nation peace through >>> obedience, disarmament making for no death shoot, imperial scum see >>> dominance in masterful power and soon dominate simple worlds >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Sam Morris <w...@csilogan.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Couple of things here Patrick...and I mean these comments respectfully. >>>> >>>> The SCOTUS disagrees with your interpretation of the Second Amendment, >>>> as do roughly 120 million gun owners in America. The opinions of liberal >>>> scholars means exactly squat. >>>> >>>> Also, the first ten amendments (the Bill of Rights) can *not* be >>>> altered without abolishing the entire US Constitution. >>>> >>>> Getting back to the OP's question - I've carried everything from a .45 >>>> Glock 19 Gen 4 to my Israeli-made .50 cal Desert Eagle. I'm a big dude so I >>>> can get away with the larger guns and concealment. I stopped carrying the >>>> DE only because I didn't want to shoot the bad guy and kill three good guys >>>> standing behind him. >>>> >>>> And I will say this to which whomever it was who said we pay the >>>> government to protect us: At the same event where you and I met (in St >>>> Louis) Patrick, I was walking back to my hotel (two blocks from the event) >>>> after a long night of training and networking. It was about 1:00 am. As I >>>> was walking back, two of St. Louis' finest citizens (dirtbags) approached >>>> me, making it very clear that they weren't selling girl scout cookies. When >>>> they were about 50 yards away I took out my Glock and racked a round (I >>>> won't carry hot because as someone else mentioned here it doesn't have a >>>> safety). When these two scumbags heard that cartridge rack, they turned and >>>> bolted. I saw nothing but assholes and elbows. >>>> >>>> I didn't have to point my weapon at them or even show it to them, much >>>> less fire it. However, had I not had it with me, I have every reason to >>>> believe I'd likely not be here typing this to you. >>>> >>>> Sam >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/7/2015 11:41 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yawn. The general population never made that boast until the NRA in the >>>>> 1980s changed their tactics to spur slagging gun sales. They moved the >>>>> conversation to patriotic themes, talk of freedom, and other pabulum >>>>> gobbled up by folks. Contrary to popular “conservative” thinking, this >>>>> is not settled law. In fact, even Scalia has been clear it’s quite >>>>> open. >>>>> Part of the issue is the meaning of “arms” and “keep” and “bear,” as >>>>> well as the limits therein. But, even more important is how modern gun >>>>> advocates neglect the entire first part of that amendment and pretend >>>>> it >>>>> does not exist at all, when rather, it is, in fact, the entire >>>>> modifying >>>>> context of the latter part of the sentence. >>>>> >>>>> I quote; >>>>> >>>>> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free >>>>> State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be >>>>> infringed." >>>>> >>>>> The NRA has done yeoman’s work pretending that part of the amendment >>>>> does not exist. The “well regulated militia” is the subject, not guns. >>>>> The rest of the sentence is the modifier. “People” in this case are >>>>> represented by each state’s militia. >>>>> >>>>> There is a significant opinion among many scholars that individual >>>>> citizens have no right at all to a gun. >>>>> >>>>> Secondly, no right is absolute. Government even grants itself the >>>>> authority to regulate our inalienable rights (capital punishment, >>>>> etc.). >>>>> Amendments can also be altered, like the idiot 18^th , in the face of >>>>> changing realities. The reality of then was a muzzle-loaded, single >>>>> fire >>>>> musket. >>>>> >>>>> And, even if anyone wants to play elementary games and claim >>>>> literalism, >>>>> good luck with that, as that same text says nothing about ammunition, >>>>> keeping and bearing LOADED arms. >>>>> >>>>> Patrick >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick >>>>> - >>>>> Lists >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 12:10 PM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy >>>>> and why >>>>> >>>>> Since when is a discussion of our legal, Constitutional rights >>>>> "pathetic" Patrick? We are talking about a tool, like any other, that >>>>> can be used to protect ourselves and others. WISPs are often out in >>>>> remote places in the dead of night...or at inner city data centers. >>>>> They are vulnerable. I know that one person on this list would >>>>> likely >>>>> not be here right now if he hadn't been able to show a gun to someone >>>>> that was about to bash him with a baseball bat outside a data center. >>>>> >>>>> Jeff Broadwick >>>>> >>>>> ConVergence Technologies, Inc. >>>>> >>>>> 312-205-2519 Office >>>>> >>>>> 574-220-7826 Cell >>>>> >>>>> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com <mailto:jbroadw...@converge-tech.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 11:58 AM, Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@telrad.com >>>>> <mailto:patrick.le...@telrad.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I’ll just note this is a pathetic thread to have in any society >>>>> that >>>>> considers itself civil. Hell, even in the “wild west” the local law >>>>> had people check their weapons into the sheriff when they came into >>>>> town. In fact, formerly, states like Texas lead the country in >>>>> banning open carry. >>>>> >>>>> “All the more surprising, then, that Texas was the first state to >>>>> ban its citizens from carrying handguns, a restriction that >>>>> remained >>>>> on the books for 125 years.” >>>>> >>>>> http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/First-to-ban-open-carry-Texas-could-be-one-of-5974401.php >>>>> >>>>> And just read this scholarly article from 1999: >>>>> >>>>> *Gun Control and the Old West* >>>>> By Ross Collins >>>>> History News Service <http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~hns/index.html>, >>>>> >>>>> Summer 1999. >>>>> >>>>> The smoke has cleared, and we peer down at the victim: another gun >>>>> control bill, shot full ‘o holes. Just like in the old horse >>>>> operas: >>>>> a hero again shoots to protect a precious freedom, America’s right >>>>> to bear arms. For many who keep a romantic image of America’s past, >>>>> gun control is like that, a battle steeped in American tradition. >>>>> It >>>>> calls us back to those legendary days of the Old West, when cowboys >>>>> defended their honor and their horses by way of their Colts >>>>> . >>>>> In fact, most historians see the cowboys of the Old West as THE >>>>> defining heroes of 20th-century America. He’s used to sell >>>>> everything from soap to hats. He’s apparently also an ideal >>>>> American >>>>> for anti-gun control groups: gun shows and gun advertising promote >>>>> from a distinctive Old West flavor. >>>>> >>>>> Today’s anti gun control forces count their strongest support among >>>>> society’s leaders from the states that once formed part of the Old >>>>> West. >>>>> The actual Old West pioneers of historical fact viewed matters >>>>> differently, however. They would certainly hail the campaign to >>>>> protect an American right to bear arms, but the record puts them >>>>> behind "moderate, common-sense measures" for gun control—the very >>>>> kind that President Clinton has proposed. >>>>> >>>>> Pioneer publications show Old West leaders repeatedly arguing in >>>>> favor of gun control. City leaders in the old cattle towns knew >>>>> from >>>>> experience what some Americans today don't want to believe: a town >>>>> which allows easy access to guns invites trouble. >>>>> What these cow town leaders saw intimately in their day-to-day >>>>> association with guns is that more guns in more places caused not >>>>> greater safety, but greater death in an already dangerous >>>>> wilderness. By the 1880s many in the west were fed up with gun >>>>> violence. Gun control, they contended, was absolutely essential, >>>>> and >>>>> the remedy advocated usually was usually no less than a total ban >>>>> on >>>>> pistol-packing. >>>>> The editor of the Black Hills Daily Times of Dakota Territory in >>>>> 1884, called the idea of carrying firearms into the city a >>>>> “dangerous practice,” not only to others, but to the packer >>>>> himself. >>>>> He emphasized his point with the headline, "Perforated by His Own >>>>> Pistol." >>>>> The editor of the Montana’s Yellowstone Journal acknowledged four >>>>> years earlier that Americans have "the right to bear arms," but he >>>>> contended that guns have to be regulated. As for cowboys carrying >>>>> pistols, a dispatch from Laramie’s Northwest Stock Journal in 1884, >>>>> reported, "We see many cowboys fitting up for the spring and summer >>>>> work. They all seem to think it absolutely necessary to have a >>>>> revolver. Of all foolish notions this is the most absurd." >>>>> >>>>> Cowboy president Theodore Roosevelt recalled with approval that as >>>>> a >>>>> Dakota Territory ranch owner, his town, at the least, allowed "no >>>>> shooting in the streets." The editor of that town's newspaper, The >>>>> Bad Lands Cow Boy of Medora, demanded that gun control be even >>>>> tighter than that, however. Like leaders in Miles City and many >>>>> other cow towns, he wanted to see guns banned entirely within the >>>>> city limits. A.T. Packard in August 1885 called "packing a gun" a >>>>> "senseless custom," and noted about a month later that "As a >>>>> protection, it is terribly useless.” >>>>> >>>>> Old West cattlemen themselves also saw the need for gun control. By >>>>> 1882, a Texas cattle raising association had banned six-shooters >>>>> from the cowboy's belt. "In almost every section of the West >>>>> murders >>>>> are on the increase, and cowmen are too often the principals in the >>>>> encounters," concurred a dispatch from the Texas Live Stock Journal >>>>> dated June 5, 1884. "The six-shooter loaded with deadly cartridges >>>>> is a dangerous companion for any man, especially if he should >>>>> unfortunately be primed with whiskey. Cattlemen should unite in >>>>> aiding the enforcement of the law against carrying of deadly >>>>> weapons." >>>>> >>>>> This echoes President Clinton’s reaction following the failure in >>>>> Congress of the most recent gun control proposals: “The American >>>>> people will not stand for this.” So far they have, however, as >>>>> recalled by the record of defeated attempts to legislate control. >>>>> As >>>>> U.S. Rep. Martin Sabo (D.-Minn.) noted, “there’s broad public >>>>> support for it, but he opponents are much more intense about it.” >>>>> >>>>> The Old West’s leaders who argued for gun control knew that a long >>>>> time ago. Their arguments sound as contemporary at the end of this >>>>> century as they were earnest at the end of the last. But despite >>>>> them, few packers have been persuaded to put away their pistols, >>>>> then or now. >>>>> >>>>> Copyright 2004 by Ross F. Collins >>>>> <www.ndsu.edu/communication/collins >>>>> <http://www.ndsu.edu/communication/collins>> >>>>> >>>>> Wayne LaPierre sure has done his job well. He’s made most of you >>>>> fooled into thinking owning a gun is a patriotic act without you >>>>> realizing you are just another tool for raking in the dough. He’s >>>>> been so successful he’s converted gun ownership into a religious >>>>> issue, to point that whether or not you own a gun is highly >>>>> predictive of your being an evangelical Christian. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/is-gun-ownership-christian/2013/01/25/c7afe7fe-6724-11e2-93e1-475791032daf_story.html >>>>> >>>>> Patrick >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Cameron >>>>> Crum >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 11:38 AM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to >>>>> buy and why >>>>> >>>>> I carry a Colt 45 Defender. It is relatively small for a 45. An NSA >>>>> buddy of mine, who had been in several close range shootouts in his >>>>> career asked me one time why I carry a 45. I told him that I'd >>>>> never >>>>> been in a firefight. I don't train in high pressure situations, and >>>>> while I'm proficient at the range, I don't train for situations >>>>> like >>>>> he did or the cops do. If I am in a situation where I have to pull >>>>> a >>>>> gun, my adrenaline is going to be pumping like crazy, and I may be >>>>> moving to cover or trying to stay out of the way of bullets myself. >>>>> I may only hit what I'm shooting at once if I'm lucky. I want the >>>>> once to count. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:30 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm >>>>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> define legally >>>>> >>>>> If a bear shits in the woods, will tight shoes cause callouses? >>>>> >>>>> I dont know why any of you want these killing machines, the >>>>> government has guns, and we pay them to protect us. Your gun, >>>>> if >>>>> you hand it to a bad guy, is 100% of the time going to be in >>>>> the >>>>> bad guys possession, and if that bad guy happens to be 5, youve >>>>> just given a child a handgun, are you saying we should arm >>>>> children? Why are you trying to kill children, children are the >>>>> future, teach them well and let them lead the way. >>>>> >>>>> Imperialist scum be furthering decline humanity. Mighty leader >>>>> will devour you in fear. >>>>> >>>>> <image002.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com >>>>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Can you legally own hand grenades? >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Mathew Howard <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:*Monday, December 07, 2015 9:15 AM >>>>> >>>>> *To:*af <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - >>>>> which to buy and why >>>>> >>>>> you do if you want to conceal it... :P >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Chuck McCown >>>>> <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You don’t need a CC to carry a Springfield 30-06.... >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Paul McCall <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net> >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:*Monday, December 07, 2015 9:03 AM >>>>> >>>>> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:*[AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - >>>>> which to buy and why >>>>> >>>>> I am getting my CC permit (Florida) in a week or so. I >>>>> took an absolutely excellent class from the main >>>>> trainer >>>>> at the Brevard county sheriff’s office. >>>>> >>>>> Now, I am looking for an excellent CC gun to use, as my >>>>> long barrel Colt 38 is not a good fit for that. >>>>> >>>>> I am certain that this group probably has a LOT of >>>>> expertise (and many opinions) on THE gun to use. >>>>> >>>>> J >>>>> >>>>> Paul McCall, Pres. >>>>> >>>>> PDMNet / Florida Broadband >>>>> >>>>> 658 Old Dixie Highway >>>>> >>>>> Vero Beach, FL 32962 >>>>> >>>>> 772-564-6800 <tel:772-564-6800> office >>>>> >>>>> 772-473-0352 <tel:772-473-0352> cell >>>>> >>>>> www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/> >>>>> >>>>> pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see >>>>> your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part >>>>> of >>>>> the team. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>>> computer viruses. >>>>> >>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>>> computer viruses. >>>>> >>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>>> computer viruses. >>>>> >>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>> >>>>> = >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>>> computer viruses. >>>>> >>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team >>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >>> >> >> > >
