"The point is, modern fighting machines are much more destructive, and are indiscriminate killing machines .. they don't know the difference between solders and civilians... It might be sexy to talk about their destructive power, but one has to realize that destructive power is far more reaching to human beings....... and this is why we don't officially keep track of civilian deaths.... "
Indiscriminate killing machines, yes. Always have been, and likely always will be. More destructive? Not necessarily. The initial Call For Fire for artillery given a map and compass has a "mean error" of 500m. It's still just as bad now as it was during World War I, maybe with slightly better numbers due to better mapping data. Fire a single Excalibur round out of one of the said artillery pieces however, and you can place the round inside a window multiple stories off the ground floor and even have a good understanding of possible building and collateral damage before the round is ever fired. Which one would you rather fire in a city? The same goes for carpet bombing. It's vastly fallen out of favor due to it's expense and mass damage, and the fact that for point targets a single 500-2000lb JDAM can have the precise effect. For moving targets, they now have laser guided JDAMS - GPS until near target, then switches to IR tracker. This means you're much more likely to have positive effects on target (EOT) than using a shotgun approach. Basically, CEP (Circular Error of Probability) went from 500m to single digit meters to centimeters now, depending on the weapons system. Understanding of collateral damage (persons / structures) is also much better. TLDR: Yes, we have some weapons systems capable of massive destruction. We've also come a long way in creating systems that have outstanding accuracy to lower round expenditures, create positive EOT, and minimize civilian and structural casualties. If you want to make an argument that all life is precious, I disagree - there are some individuals out there that the world would be better off had they not been born... a lot of them, sadly. It is tragic when non-coms get caught in the crossfire. On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote: > >>Perspective is a powerful thing. > Agreed.. > > >>.Not as high as the loss of life would have been if we were running at > one another with swords and bows, not as high as lining up in front of one > another taking turns to load and shoot, and not as high as it would be had > we been forced from our trenches into the waiting maw of the enemy with the > dull smell of onions in the air behind us. > > Hmm... opinion based on which account one has read... Most of those > battles ended in one day or within a short amount of time, the battle field > was always contained .... to soldiers. > > > The point is, modern fighting machines are much more destructive, and are > indiscriminate killing machines .. they don't know the difference between > solders and civilians... It might be sexy to talk about their destructive > power, but one has to realize that destructive power is far more reaching > to human beings....... and this is why we don't officially keep track of > civilian deaths.... > > > Faisal Imtiaz > > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Monday, April 4, 2016 10:03:07 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ot] battleship engineering > > Not as high as the loss of life would have been if we were running at one > another with swords and bows, not as high as lining up in front of one > another taking turns to load and shoot, and not as high as it would be had > we been forced from our trenches into the waiting maw of the enemy with the > dull smell of onions in the air behind us. > > Citizens of London, Stalingrad, Berlin, Nagasaki and Hiroshima would > appreciate how "civilized" we have become from a certain point of view. > > Citizens of cities who have been invaded by ISIS/ISIL... Probably not so > much. > > Perspective is a powerful thing. > On Apr 4, 2016 8:09 AM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote: > >> No offense meant to anyone.... >> >> But let me ask you one question:- >> >> What was the cost in human lives paid for that adventure ? >> (Both sides, good, bad, ugly...... human cost ?) >> >> >> Regards >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *"David Milholen" <dmilho...@wletc.com> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Monday, April 4, 2016 8:24:36 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ot] battleship engineering >> >> I got to sit between two units on my M1A1 tank that had a fire mission >> into Kuwait and Iraq. >> The unit I called the BIg Ear sat up on the forward berm to identify >> targets of opportunity. >> These so called targets were other artillery that were firing on its own >> troops for desertion. >> By late evening the star clusters that littered the sky soon died down to >> one or two after the MRLS missions were done. >> >> >> On 4/4/2016 12:11 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote: >> >> My dream fire mission was MLRS :) >> On Apr 3, 2016 10:23 PM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm all for precision guided munitions, but nothing says we've come to >>> kick some ass like shelling an enemy position with the 16in guns from a >>> battleship. Talk about demoralizing the enemy. >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Systems like that don't exist so much... At least, there are no guns of >>>> that size on a battleship that I'm aware of (16"). >>>> >>>> I know there are much smaller systems now for certain classes of >>>> warships. When I was going through my joint fires naval training we talked >>>> about a bunch of systems (that are now public knowledge). One of the newer >>>> naval guns has a 40+ nautical mile range and GPS guided round - similar to >>>> the Excalibur artillery round. Those are mostly automated systems. >>>> >>>> If I remember right, a full battery salvo from an Iowa class battleship >>>> on a surface target could spread out the round impact locations to create a >>>> 1Km x 1Km "casualty box". I always wanted the opportunity to employ that >>>> system :P >>>> On Apr 3, 2016 10:23 AM, "David Milholen" <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> What an AWEsome piece of history. >>>>> I wonder how many of those systems are completely automated and how >>>>> much faster reload time is ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 4/3/2016 1:59 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote: >>>>> >>>>> https://youtu.be/_wT1xkRpCKk >>>>> >>>>> I love this stuff. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> >> >
