Birth certificates and records have been around a long time, and they are free the first time you get one. So you're saying if you are irresponsible and lose it, you shouldn't have to pay to get a new one? What if you were irresponsible and lost your pilots license...would you have to pay for a new one of those? The states have gone out of their way to make it as easy as possible to get a free id for those who are too incompetent or too indigent to afford them. If a person can't manage that, I'm guessing they aren't going to take the time to vote. There has to be some level of responsibility involved on the voter's behalf. I know responsibility is a 4 letter word to most liberals, but it really does benefit the world when you take it for yourself.
On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote: > How would they know if there was voter fraud? Personally, I think the > whole argument is pretty much a waste of time on both sides, since neither > the fraud nor the supposed disenfranchisement is actually likely to be > enough to have any real effect on the elections... other than maybe in > Chicago :P > > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> Certainly non existent in Chicago.... right.... No fraud about it. You >> pay good money for good votes. >> >> *From:* Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 10:28 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump Says He Might Block Money >> Transfers to Mexico - WSJ >> >> >> >> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/upshot/vote-fraud-is-rare-but-myth-is-widespread.html?referer= >> >> Voter fraud is vertically non existent >> >> >> >> On Thursday, April 7, 2016, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> OK, how do you prevent people from voting twice? Or 10 times? >>> >>> *From:* Sean Heskett >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 10:20 PM >>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump Says He Might Block Money >>> Transfers to Mexico - WSJ >>> >>> Except that the 24th amendment to to US constitution outlaws a poll tax >>> specifically because people have tried to suppress other people's right to >>> vote by making laws that require some "hoop" to be jumped thru. >>> >>> To get an ID you need a birth certificate, to get a birth certificate >>> you need to...wait for it...pay money to the state. Many people alive >>> today were not issued a birth certificate at birth or have lost it thru the >>> years. Obtaining a new birth certificate == poll tax. >>> >>> Why not just say everyone who votes needs a pilot's license. I have >>> one so I can vote...oh you don't have $10,000 to get a pilot license, so >>> sorry. Try harder. >>> >>> -Sean >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, April 7, 2016, Chuck McCown < >>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ch...@wbmfg.com');> wrote: >>> >>>> I am saying, if you want to drive, you have to get qualified. Pass >>>> tests, pay money. >>>> If you want a concealed carry, you have to get qualified. Pass tests, >>>> pay money. >>>> Voting is a privilege too. Just like a passport. If you want to vote >>>> or to leave the country, you have to get qualified and in the case of a >>>> passport, pay money. >>>> >>>> I understand the argument that voting is a bedrock principle of our >>>> style of civilization and you should be automatically qualified once you >>>> hit voting age, but we take that right away from some felons. We need to >>>> keep the voting process as honest as possible and that means attempting to >>>> control voter fraud. Having ID does not seem like an insurmountable >>>> unreasonable barrier to entry. Some folks are just born into sucky >>>> situations. Affirmative action did not seem to erase that. >>>> >>>> *From:* Sean Heskett >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:48 PM >>>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump Says He Might Block Money >>>> Transfers to Mexico - WSJ >>>> >>>> Um I know some of you are being funny and others are serious...but have >>>> y'all never lived in the city where everyone takes the bus or other public >>>> transportation and few people own a car??? >>>> >>>> I lived in downtown Denver for four years and rode my bike/used public >>>> transportation and didn't own a car. It was too big of a pain in the ass >>>> to find parking etc and the city center is much easier to navigate on foot >>>> or by bike. >>>> >>>> At the time I also didn't drink alcohol and I've never smoked tobacco. >>>> Didn't need anything more than my student ID (for all the discounts) and >>>> whatever cash I had on hand. >>>> >>>> Not everyone lives in suburbia and drives a ginormous SUV. >>>> >>>> -Sean >>>> >>>> On Thursday, April 7, 2016, Chuck McCown < >>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ch...@wbmfg.com');> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Should they be allowed to drive? >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Carl Peterson >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 5:01 PM >>>>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump Says He Might Block Money >>>>> Transfers toMexico - WSJ >>>>> >>>>> There are areas of Baltimore where I would venture that more then 75% >>>>> of 18-20 year olds have no state ID and likely have no idea how, or means, >>>>> to obtain one. Should they be allowed to vote? >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 7, 2016, at 12:49 PM, Cameron Crum < >>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cc...@wispmon.com');> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm curious how any functioning adult lives life without an ID? Do >>>>> they drive, buy tobacco, buy alcohol, buy prescription meds, have a bank >>>>> account, have a job, travel on a plane, go to school, or any number of >>>>> other things that require an ID almost daily? Your hyperbole about >>>>> conservatives is just as bad as if I said the only reason you don't want >>>>> voter id is so all the illegals can vote to keep your liberals in power. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Mathew Howard < >>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mhoward...@gmail.com');> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Well... I'm all for keeping Mexicans from voting (as in citizens of >>>>>> Mexico)... but if we're talking US citizens of Mexican descent, they >>>>>> obviously have every bit as much right to vote as I do, whether I agree >>>>>> with who they vote for or not... and I don't know anyone that thinks >>>>>> otherwise. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Mike Hammett < >>>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af...@ics-il.net');> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Opponents think it's to keep "Mexicans" from voting because we're >>>>>>> all racist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Voting is little different with the second Amendment and they're >>>>>>> just fine with that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" < >>>>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mhoward...@gmail.com');> >>>>>>> *To: *"af" <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> >>>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, April 7, 2016 11:32:17 AM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump Says He Might Block Money >>>>>>> Transfers to Mexico - WSJ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> While I'm not familiar with Texas' requirements, a quick google >>>>>>> tells me they require one of the following: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public >>>>>>> Safety (DPS) >>>>>>> - Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS >>>>>>> - Texas personal identification card issued by DPS >>>>>>> - Texas license to carry a handgun issued by DPS >>>>>>> - United States military identification card containing the >>>>>>> person’s photograph >>>>>>> - United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s >>>>>>> photograph >>>>>>> - United States passport >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Those are all government issued forms of photo ID... I don't really >>>>>>> see anything inconsistent there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> here in Wisconsin, at least some student ID's are acceptable... and >>>>>>> there is a process for obtaining an ID card completely free if you can't >>>>>>> pay for the necessary documentation. But as far as requiring a birth >>>>>>> certificate to get an ID, how else do you go about proving that you're >>>>>>> actually citizen? I really don't see anything unfair about requiring >>>>>>> someone to prove they're a citizen to be eligible to vote. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Sean Heskett < >>>>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af...@zirkel.us');> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The 42 member "freedom caucus" in the house only exists because of >>>>>>>> gerrymandering. They are in districts that are so skewed that only a >>>>>>>> super >>>>>>>> conservative "republican" could ever win. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for voter ID there is tons of evidence that absentee ballots >>>>>>>> have a lot of voter fraud but in person voting the fraud is less than >>>>>>>> .01%. All the voter ID laws are designed to suppress in person voting >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> an illegal "poll tax". Oh sure the ID might be "free" but the birth >>>>>>>> certificate you need to produce costs money. Also in texas you can use >>>>>>>> your hunting or fishing license but you can't use a student ID...even >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> the student ID was issued by a state school. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tell me exactly how those two things in this country are 1. Fair 2. >>>>>>>> Make America great?!?! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Sean >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 7, 2016, Mike Hammett < >>>>>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af...@ics-il.net');> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "conservative minority" HAH! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Most people are in the middle and couldn't give a shit less, while >>>>>>>>> indeed a minority fight for or against most things. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Progressive liberals" often forget the difference between legal >>>>>>>>> and illegal immigration. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If the "conservative minority" is gerrymandering districts in >>>>>>>>> Illinois, they sure aren't very good at it. Both parties gerrymander >>>>>>>>> and it >>>>>>>>> sucks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You need an ID to do almost everything else in your life, why >>>>>>>>> should the most important thing be any different? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BTW: I'd like to welcome unchecked emotion to a mostly logical >>>>>>>>> conversation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> *From: *"Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us> >>>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, April 7, 2016 1:16:11 AM >>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump Says He Might Block Money >>>>>>>>> Transfers to Mexico - WSJ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "The Wall" is a stupid, ignorant and an expensive attempt to solve >>>>>>>>> a non-issue...PERIOD! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My great grandfather was an immigrant from Italy...when no one >>>>>>>>> liked Italians. Italy was poor and invading north africa his >>>>>>>>> motivation >>>>>>>>> was the same as all the South Americans coming here now (I say South >>>>>>>>> Americans because most of the illegal immigrants are forms Countries >>>>>>>>> south >>>>>>>>> of Mexico) He forbade my grandmother from learning Italian because at >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> time the Italians were looked down upon (early 1900's) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Totally shameful that everyone has the "close the gate behind me" >>>>>>>>> mentality. America (not 'merica) is built on immigrants. Those who >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> no compassion for the Syrians fleeing oppression or the South >>>>>>>>> Americans >>>>>>>>> migrating north for a better life are just plain stupid in my opinion. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As a progressive liberal - yeah I said it and I'm fucking proud of >>>>>>>>> being a progressive liberal - im so sick and tired of the agenda of >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> country being driven by this damn conservative minority who would >>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>> see their neighbor fail. And yes it is a conservative minority >>>>>>>>> because they >>>>>>>>> have to gerrymander districts and enact "voter ID" laws in order to >>>>>>>>> win. >>>>>>>>> Social security and Medicare/Medicade are vital to our well being and >>>>>>>>> prevent the old, sick and poor from dying on the streets. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I could go on and on but #fucktrump and #fuckcruze their policies >>>>>>>>> and rhetoric have no place in a "civilized" society. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What the happened to "love thy neighbor"?!?!? Seriously WTF? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I can't wait to see the republican convention contort itself into >>>>>>>>> a million pieces...you reap what you sow. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> America is already fucking great! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry for all the cursing but it really chaps my hide to see >>>>>>>>> American politicians act this poorly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2 cents >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Sean >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Guys, I am not a Trump fan boy, so let’s make this disclaimer up >>>>>>>>>> front. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> However, there is a LOT of street smarts in this guy. The >>>>>>>>>> negotiation is just that… a negotiation. IF he gets in, and starts >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> process and is bound and determined to make it happen, extremities >>>>>>>>>> can be >>>>>>>>>> discussed (or thrown out there as shots across the bow), and then >>>>>>>>>> adjustments get made. The point of a wall WILL be built, coming >>>>>>>>>> from him, >>>>>>>>>> gets it started, and having Mexico start to feel the pinch (in >>>>>>>>>> whatever way >>>>>>>>>> that takes) will get people’s attention. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is “the wall” THE answer to immigration challenges? Of course >>>>>>>>>> not. Is it helpful and one part of the total solution needed? >>>>>>>>>> absolutely. There IS NO border with the U.S. right now. What is >>>>>>>>>> there is >>>>>>>>>> a façade. Trump is crude and I wish he would tone down the rhetoric >>>>>>>>>> a bit >>>>>>>>>> (for everybody’s benefit, including himself), but this country needs >>>>>>>>>> action >>>>>>>>>> in so, so many areas and nobody seems to have the gonads to do >>>>>>>>>> anything >>>>>>>>>> that isn’t buried in PC or politics or corruption or power or all of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> above. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I acknowledge that I may be naïve or optimistic on the subject. >>>>>>>>>> But, I *still believe in America* and its strength and there is >>>>>>>>>> been absolutely nothing done in recent time to maintain or increase >>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>> strength… only further dilution and division and flailing discourse >>>>>>>>>> at an >>>>>>>>>> unprecedented level historically. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not a Trump fan, but “let’s have some balls and fix our country >>>>>>>>>> fan” >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime >>>>>>>>>> Solorza >>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 05, 2016 7:10 PM >>>>>>>>>> *To:* Animal Farm >>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump Says He Might Block Money >>>>>>>>>> Transfers to Mexico - WSJ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What a fucking idiot idea....from a fucking idiot.... did I say >>>>>>>>>> fucking idiot..oh yes I did >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-says-he-might-block-money-transfers-to-mexico-1459892237 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >
