I hear the same thing in Canada all the time about the “taxpayers” funding the ILEC’s …. yes, there has been subsidy and grants and other stuff over the years but those phone networks were never actually *built* with taxpayers dollars - some LEC’s got funding to expand into areas they wouldn’t normally serve and stuff but that’s different in my opinion ….
> On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only after > low hanging fruit. > And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied to > those using the PSTN. > And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell > back in the day. It was a replacement to make them whole. > > Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. Just > because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a railroad, gas > company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or telco, don't be > a hater. > > -----Original Message----- From: Josh Reynolds > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? > > They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their > primary focus going. :) > > Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to > throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received > billions upon billions of taxpayer money? > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman > <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: >> Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money. Now Gmail kind of >> does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product). >> >> They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a >> company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the intention >> of destroying other companies business. >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> >> On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: >>> >>> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look >>> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be >>> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well. >>> >>> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards, >>> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret >>> projects / labs) will. >>> >>> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects, >>> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business >>> strategy. >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman >>> <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: >>> > Who is we? I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all >>> > the >>> > cancelled projects. >>> > >>> > Josh Luthman >>> > Office: 937-552-2340 >>> > Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> > 1100 Wayne St >>> > Suite 1337 >>> > Troy, OH 45373 >>> > >>> > >>> > On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster" <i...@wirelessmapping.com> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell >>> >> you >>> >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the >>> >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners >>> >> (read >>> >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of >>> >> the >>> >> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and >>> >> San >>> >> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than >>> >> Google >>> >> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities >>> >> would >>> >> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much >>> >> existing >>> >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think >>> >> Google >>> >> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with >>> >> the >>> >> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like >>> >> Kansas >>> >> City did). >>> >> >>> >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit >>> >> their >>> >> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on >> >>> >> pre-sign >>> >> ups >>> >> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem >> >>> >> in >>> >> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This >> >>> >> also >>> >> drove up costs. >>> >> >>> >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see >>> >> from >>> >> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, >>> >> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where >> >>> >> they >>> >> can. >>> >> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high >>> >> construction >>> >> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to >>> >> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU >>> >> cases. >>> >> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it >>> >> risky >>> >> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take >> >>> >> rate >>> >> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity >>> >> short >>> >> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, >>> >> interference and capacity. >>> >> >>> >> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to >> >>> >> do >>> >> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from >>> >> the >>> >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD >>> >> and >>> >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks >>> >> are too >>> >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. >>> >> Google is >>> >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, >>> >> tools >>> >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and >> >>> >> they >>> >> have >>> >> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not >>> >> real >>> >> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input. >>> >> >>> >> Thank You, >>> >> Brian Webster >>> >> www.wirelessmapping.com >>> >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM >>> >> To: af@afmug.com >>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? >>> >> >>> >> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel >>> >> through >>> >> the eye of a needle. >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Josh Reynolds >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM >>> >> To: af@afmug.com >>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? >>> >> >>> >> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your >>> >> WISP. >>> >> >>> >> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in >>> >> the >>> >> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF >>> >> engineering talent in the world on their payroll? >>> >> >>> >> They're not doing anything different than many of us have done, which >>> >> is >>> >> evaluate the business case for each technology and pick the most >>> >> appropriate >>> >> one for the application. If it was going to cost you a couple hundred >>> >> thousand just to cross an intersection, you'd be doing the same thing >>> >> too. >>> >> It's the smart play. >>> >> >>> >> At least they're not doing this in LEC style, which would mean "saying >>> >> they can't do it unless they receive federal subsidies". >>> >> >>> >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:59 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller >>> >> <par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > Wait until they experience ducting ;) >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> > From: Bill Prince >>> >> > To: af@afmug.com >>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:48 AM >>> >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? >>> >> > >>> >> > It's apparently "too expensive" to do underground fiber. At least in >>> >> > San Jose. >>> >> > >>> >> > Anyone know anything about Webpass? >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > bp >>> >> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >> > >>> >> > On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > Google Fiber considering fixed microwave technology as alternative >> >>> >> > > to >>> >> > fiber. >>> >> > Interesting times! >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/google-fiber-del >>> >> > ays-san-jose-project-may-switch-to-wireless-instead/?comments=1 >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >
