Uplink interference has the ungoodness of not only poor uplink capacity,
but also the impact on control. If SMs can't get bandwidth requests
fulfilled, there goes your downlink throughput.
I had this argument with the boss. He says so what if we can't get a
whole lot of upload speed out of it, there's still like >20Mbps
download! I said yeahbut, if it can't be scheduled, then what's the point?
Yeah, you can throw a whole lot of control slots at the problem.
Probably half will be wasted and you also burn up usable data slots.
On 9/27/2016 1:24 PM, Brandon Yuchasz wrote:
Its good ( kinda) to see we are not the only ones that are running into the frame
utilization issues with the upload on to the AP. Once we got to around 20sm we
started to see the top of what we could do with an AP. For those of you that are
seeing noise at the AP side but not at the SM side are you seeing >80% upload
in your link tests? If so are you finding the same load of around 20 SM to be the
top where you hit full frame utilization at peak times? I see our AP's moving
around 30mbps aggregated at peak times never more it seems to be topped out.
-----Original Message-----
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 12:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
Like everything with 900, you probably have to just try it.
What's clearer is that if most of your FSK subs are at 2X, then moving to 450i
will probably net you a big capacity increase, you will be back in the real
broadband business.
But with a marginal signal level and lots of interference, it's hard to
predict. It will give you some extra tools, like 5, 7 and 10 MHz channel
widths. And my (limited) experience was yes we got better throughput and
fewer losses of registration.
You do have to realize that with a 17 dBi CPE antenna and probably running full
xmt power, you are probably over the 36 dBm EIRP limit by at least 6 dB in the
upstream direction. So do you use the KP 17.5 dBi yagi but tell the SM it only
has a 10 or 12 dBi antenna? From your numbers, I think you're going to have
to. Unless you have one of those situations where a wider beam to illuminate
more foliage would actually perform better.
It you're going to try it, now's the time with the promotion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 11:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
I'm curious how the conversion from the legacy 900 gear to the 450i is.
For example, if we have a customer with a -75 with a 17 db yagi on the old
stuff but is having problems due to interference will we be able to salvage
them with the 450i 900 gear?
Dave wrote:
George,
Myself and another ISP here in Arkansas have been using the new 450i
900 gear and for what its worth we have been amazed at some of the
penetration and numbers we able to see.
Using KP sectors and yagis is the ticket.
We have been able to increase marginal shots in upwards of 10+ points
or more.
The only gotcha I have with the stuff is the number of clients that
can be sustained on an AP.
Which all revolves around Frame Utilization. We have been ok with
about 20 subs with a 5x5 sustained rate package.
I am sure you could squeeze more by tweaking the sustained and burst.
I used the Capacity planner cambium has for this and it was really
close for what we see.
Yes, even through some pine
On 09/24/2016 02:45 PM, George Skorup wrote:
And what happens when the noise floor increases and the eNB can't
hear those shitty CPEs anymore? Nevermind, that question answered itself.
The boss keeps wanting to try an LTE sector at sites where we have a
mile or more deep trees (where we know 900 FSK barely works now, not
only due to power levels but noise floor too). My fear is that it
actually does "work" (meaning horrible mod levels) and he'll want to
run with it. So we'll get what, a couple Mbps out of a sector. Sounds
a lot like 900 FSK. Sounds a lot like 900 450i with a horrible noise
floor. So we gain nothing and spent a ton of money. Great idea. And
we won't end up getting all of the customers off of the 900 anyway,
that I'm sure.
On 9/24/2016 11:47 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
In Wimax it's 4x4....I'm pretty sure we'll have 4x4 in LTE as well,
but I think feature was released only a month or so ago. We have a
few places with split sectors, so we'll be able to compare to 2x2.
From what I understand, LTE's frame structure is such that it can
hang on to a crummy signal longer than Wimax. It was explained to me
that Wimax puts the synchronization data in the pre-amble which has
to be received on every subcarrier, whereas LTE has that data
interspersed among the subcarriers, so where your weak wimax CPE
sometimes cuts in an out, an LTE CPE in the same conditions can stay
connected. It also has lower mod levels that let it operate right
down to the noise floor. And at least in theory you'll get more
throughput than you get in the same conditions on Wimax.
I have the same reservations as you about the low mod levels thing.
Just because they work doesn't mean you want them. We're not
intentionally installing anything weaker than a -80 RSSI right now,
so we really ought to be ok on that front.
-Adam
------ Original Message ------
From: "George Skorup" <geo...@cbcast.com <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 9/23/2016 11:23:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
Well, let me ask this. Are you doing 2x2 or 4x4 on the Telrad?
Obviously 4x4 would give a slight advantage.
My whole thing is, OK, it might work through a shit ton of trees.
Linked up and able to move some traffic is one thing. But a whole
bunch of low modulation customers on a sector is not worth the
investment. LTE, Wimax, 450i 900.. whatever it may be.
I know of a Telrad installation where they couldn't make it work.
Turned out to be interference. They had some guys from Israel come
"fix" it. I won't say any names, but I now see what they did to get
it working. It's in the 3.5 band.. because I can see them on my
450's spectrum analyzer. From multiple sectors on multiple towers,
so I know what direction it's coming from. And I have no doubt
they're running it over powered.
Welp, we have a BaiCells demo kit, so we'll see what happens.
On 9/23/2016 9:52 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
We've had Telrad Compact 1000's for around 2.5 years, but they're
running Wimax firmware because we were replacing older 16e
installations. We have a number of sites now that have entirely
dual mode CPE so we're about to pull the trigger on LTE. We're
installing four LTE base stations next week on brand new sites,
and assuming those go well we'll upgrade some existing Wimax sites.
So yeah, within the next few weeks I'll know more. I'll definitely
report back.
It's interesting that you phrase it as "if it works at all." The
issue with Wimax has never been it "working", it's just that it
comes with a lot of quirks and it sucks at administration and
troubleshooting. I'm speaking of Wimax in general here, not
Telrad specifically....and I've used Wimax from three different
vendors now. I have no fear about LTE working. I _am_ afraid it
will turn out to be cut from the same cloth as Wimax.
------ Original Message ------
From: "George Skorup" <geo...@cbcast.com
<mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 9/23/2016 8:04:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
Aren't you doing Telrad? Please let us know if it works at all.
On 9/23/2016 4:05 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'll let you know in a few weeks.
------ Original Message ------
From: ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 9/23/2016 5:01:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
I wonder what LTE would do with the same RSSI.
*From:* Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, September 23, 2016 2:46 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
Oh I also have somebody with a -88 who gets about half that.
900 was the last ditch effort for both of these.
With wimax from the same tower we got a big fat nothing at both
locations.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 9/23/2016 4:44:21 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
On the other end of the quality spectrum:
*Link Test with Bridging
*
VC Downlink Uplink Aggregate Packet Transmit Packet
Receive
Actual Actual
19 6.07 Mbps 1.32 Mbps 7.39 Mbps, 474 pps 821 (410 pps)
128(64 pps)
That's a -85 on a 5mhz channel. On any wider channel I lose
this guy.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com
<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 9/23/2016 4:17:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
This is from one of ours
Current Results Status
Stats for LUID: 3 Test Duration: 5 Pkt Length: 1714 Test
Direction Bi-Directional
*RF Link Test*
VC Downlink Uplink Aggregate Packet Transmit Packet
Receive
Actual Actual
19 26.13 Mbps 6.78 Mbps 32.92 Mbps, 2367 pps 2389 (477
pps) 9450(1890 pps)
*Efficiency*
Downlink Uplink
Efficiency Fragments
count Efficiency Fragments
count
Actual Expected Actual Expected
100% 255254 255254 78% 84124 66231
Link Test ran on 03:59:48 01/09/2011 UTC
*Currently transmitting at:*
VC 19 Rate 8X/8X MIMO-B
On 09/23/2016 03:12 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
We're looking at doing a forklift on a couple of 900 MHz FSK
APs. What are real world throughput numbers that any of you
pioneers are getting? We would probably want to do 10 MHz
channels at first, and I would hope that we could get > 15
Mbps in download, but maybe I'm being too conservative?
The places we are looking at do not have Smart Meter issues.
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
--
--
