Excellent points. On Dec 21, 2016 8:46 PM, "Jeremy" <jeremysmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because it gives the appearance that government is favoring a specific > religion, in violation of the 14th amendment. It shows a lack of > separation of church and state. If we are going to allow christian > displays on public property then we also have to allow the Church of Satan > to erect Baphomet as well. The issue is that Satanic churches, Muslims, > and Secular belief systems are not given the same rights as Christians. > Just look at the Atheists and agnostics who have attempted to give the > opening invocations at our legislature meetings all over the country, and > the reactions that they got. They have been berated and disrespected. > This is the ground zero for the establishment of a government-favored > religion. > > "*The claim that America was founded as a “Christian nation” is at best a > gross over-simplification and at worst a myth fabricated in order to > manipulate contemporary sensibilities*. Many of the prominent “Founding > Fathers,” were in fact not Christians in the sense that contemporary > evangelical, mainline Protestant, and Roman Catholic churches understand > the term. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Benjamin > Franklin, and a host of others were Deists, or at least influenced by deist > philosophy. They conceived of God as a divine watchmaker – this > impersonal, inaccessible deity set the universe in motion then sat back and > watched history unfold completely independent of any transcendent > intervention, miracles, or divine-human relationships (Jefferson famously > edited the New Testament to remove all references to Jesus as a divine > miracle worker and render him merely a moral philosopher). The position of > these Founding Fathers was far from any orthodox theology of divine > immanence. > > Further, the idea that the United States could be a “Christian nation” is > theologically problematic. The only “Christian nation” which the New > Testament envisions is the Kingdom of God, which transcends national, > cultural, and ethnic boundaries. Were the United States to be a “Christian > nation,” she would have to do more than celebrate Christmas as a federal > holiday and display the Ten Commandments in her courthouses. If she were > held to the same standards to which the New Testament holds the Christian > community, the United States would have to embody Christian principles, > including the mandate to love one’s enemy, eschew power, put away the > sword, give freely without any expectation of repayment, and – because she > is very rich – sell all her material possessions, donate the proceeds to > the poor, then take up a cross of discipleship. The consumerism and > materialism which characterize so much of the American ethos – Jefferson’s > “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” was a modification of John > Locke’s “life, liberty, and the pursuit of property,” and indeed most > versions of the American Dream equate property with happiness – seem to be > at odds with most versions of core Christian values. In short, the United > States is not a “Christian nation,” and simply displaying representations > of the Ten Commandments in public locations does not change this reality." > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> yep but you will probably be yelling oh God when under dangerous or >> extremely pleasurable situation, >> Like Blood Sweat and Tears said, "I know there is no heaven, but I pray >> there is no Hell!" >> zaz...in your face >> >> Jaime Solorza >> Wireless Systems Architect >> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390> >> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:39 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> so, we use the Gregorian calendar which is named after a pope... I >>> wonder if I can skip court dates on the grounds it offends me >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Roadside displays should be free speech. >>>> >>>> Anything guvmint should be looked at suspiciously. Whether it is >>>> christian, jewish, muslim, pagan, or whatever. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 12:46 PM, Jay Weekley < >>>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe. All those displays of Lady Justice at the court houses have to >>>> go. >>>> >>>> Chuck McCown wrote: >>>> > How about flowers or crosses on the side of the road where someone >>>> died? >>>> > >>>> > Do you tear down the pyramids or stone hinge? >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- From: Jay Weekley >>>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 1:42 PM >>>> > To: af@afmug.com >>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - trolling again >>>> > >>>> > Do you stop all religious displays or just Christian, Jewish or >>>> Muslim? >>>> > There are plenty of religious symbols from ancient religions all over >>>> > public property. I'd kind of like them removed as well. >>>> > >>>> > Lewis Bergman wrote: >>>> >> I have a friend who is an atheist. He compares it to how I feel >>>> about >>>> >> any resources from my tax money going to abortion. Not sure I agree >>>> >> with the equivalency of the resources involved but I can see his >>>> >> point. If that is his only issue with my stance I would like to ask >>>> >> to stop all displays of Nativity Scenes in trade for not funding any >>>> >> abortions. Anyway, I thought his argument was fairly reasoned. >>>> >> >>>> >> I still ddon't understand why they care. It seems some are just >>>> >> purely to try and rub Christians nose in the fact they don't believe >>>> >> and think you are stupid for doing so. I view it like a lot of >>>> >> things. I don't care f you are gay or straight, married or just >>>> >> living with someone, Dem or Rep. As long as it doesn't affect me I >>>> >> simply don't give a shit. >>>> >> >>>> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:09 PM That One Guy /sarcasm >>>> >> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> attention seeking behavior >>>> >> >>>> >> most of these "athiests" "agnostics" "satanists" whatever "ist" >>>> >> they present as, couldnt even tell you the basic tenets of their >>>> >> "ist" and all they do is parrot simplistic talking points from the >>>> >> borg of nevergrewups ... "if you celebrate christmas, than a >>>> >> pagan" nonsense like that >>>> >> >>>> >> society has slowly moved to the age of adulthood being a sliding >>>> >> scale, with fewer and fewer on the lower end every generation. >>>> >> >>>> >> the bulk of actual athiests, agnostics, satanists and other non >>>> >> attention whore ists could really give a shit less what others do >>>> >> >>>> >> just remember, just because the loudmouth makes the most noise, it >>>> >> doesnt mean they represent the majority of their fellows. Also, >>>> >> remember, everyone is unique, just like everyone else. >>>> >> >>>> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com >>>> >> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> We have days on the calendar about people. >>>> >> Presidents day used to be Wash’n and Linc’n bdays. >>>> >> MLK day. >>>> >> Casmir Pulaski day. >>>> >> Columbus day. >>>> >> So, why are the atheists and others so unhappy about displays >>>> >> on public property about Jesus. >>>> >> I doubt anyone in Illinios would get unhappy if the local park >>>> >> had a Lincoln-Douglas plaque... actually Quincy had exactly >>>> >> that. >>>> >> Public displays frequently celebrate or inform about events in >>>> >> history. >>>> >> Our legal system has its basis in the bible, with some of the >>>> >> legal doctrine based on the advise of Jesus. >>>> >> He lived. He taught. He gave advice. It affected history. >>>> >> Just like MLK. >>>> >> But on MLK day do the pentagram sculptures try to share space >>>> >> with MLK events? >>>> >> I don’t get why the Jesus events on public property are such >>>> >> an insult or affront to some people. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't >>>> >> see >>>> >> your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of >>>> >> the team. >>>> >> >>>> >> No virus found in this message. >>>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> >>>> >> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13627 - Release Date: >>>> >> 12/21/16 >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- >>>> > No virus found in this message. >>>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> > Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13629 - Release Date: >>>> > 12/21/16 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team >>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >>> >> >> >
