Actually, the fact is (I learned this from a Jerry Springer Episode) that god is a dishwasher at a dennys in california
[image: Inline image 1] On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > I was just reading last night about a phrase Jesus said: "Render under to > Caesar that which is Caesar's" in response to a question about whether it > was right for Jews to pay Roman taxes. I was taught in the Baptist church > that he was telling them to pay the Romans their taxes, and in effect that > it was right to submit to earthly laws. I was unaware until last night > that there were alternate interpretations by scholars looking at the > historical context and alternate translations. Depending on who you ask, > it could have meant "yes pay the Roman tax", or the exact opposite, or it > could have been dodging the question. > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 12/22/2016 2:11:28 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - trolling again > > > Interesting discussion... If I may join in :) > > From a Muslim perspective.... > > We don't believe in Evolution, believe in Adam & Eve being the first > humans created by God (A Singular Unique Entity), and Jesus being the > Messiah. > For the sake of not forking the discussion into something else, I will > stay away from the difference in 'Religion' and just look at the 'Common' > elements. > > There have been 100's of Prophets since Adam, and a number of 'Holy > Text(Books)'... Torah,(Psalms) Zabur & Injeel (Bible) and the Quran > > In all of these 4 Books (Covering the Abrahamic Faiths) there more in > common than what is not common. > > As such, I will make the case that, All Constitutions (irrespective of > which part of the world) start out with these common elements, let's just > call them "Humanity first" Elements, > and then they go thru the contortions by the law makers to fit their > desired needs. > > Having known that Muslim's come in more than 31 Flavors of Belief, and > have learnt that so do Christians and Jews of today's world, it is rather > amusing and en-lighting to see such conversations. > > I thought it's only the Muslims that have an ongoing debate in > 'translating' the Arabic from the Quran. I cannot speak about the Jewish > Torah, but in regards to the Bible, it would appear that it has gone thru a > few 'translation' cycles. > > I can tell you, that in the Quran, there are some verses which have been > very difficult to translate in the past, but as time has passed those have > become a lot easier to understand. > > So if I was infer from this I can see why there would be issues with any > Holy Book which was translated a while back... > In my humble opinion, the problem is not with the Holy Text, but more with > the 'translation' choosen by the person or folks who did the translation. > > And, yes there is no shortage of people who are willing to distort the > text to suite their needs on any side, part of the world. > And I fully understand that someone else may have a very different POV due > to their upbringing. > > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518> > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: > supp...@snappytelecom.net > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:36:30 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT - trolling again > > I was raised Catholic, now im Agnostic almost Atheist. I believe the bible > is a book put together through time to accomplish 2 main things (same as > religion) : Give purpose / meaning to your life, put together social > norms. They way that they are convey, that’s another topic of discussion. > > Too many things in the bible that nowadays makes no sense at all to take > it literally… > > > > > > From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com > > > Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> > Date: Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 12:18 PM > To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - trolling again > > > > *Gino Villarini* > President > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 > > Not no problem with what he is saying, I largely have the same opinion. I > look at Science and Religion as two views of the exact same thing. I only > believe in one thing... truth. > > *From:* Bill Prince > *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:11 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - trolling again > > > What Neil has to say > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRt0FKeorlM > > bp > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > > On 12/22/2016 7:12 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > Western Law does in fact have deep roots in the bible. > > Western Common Law is the basis of our constitution modified with the > benefit of historical observations of failed nation states. > But those that reject the biblical ancestry of our legal system need to > actually read the bible, the whole thing. Perhaps several times. > > > 1) I am the LORD thy God… Thou shalt have no other gods before me. > OK, we have substituted our allegiance to our nation in the place of god. > Ye shall not pledge allegiance to any other nation. Same idea. You can > lose your citizenship. > > 2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image > This is pretty much limited to counterfeiting these days. (ok that is a > bit of stretch...) > > 3) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain > Huge expansion of this one, you even have to utter trigger warnings if you > take the name of Che Guevara in vain on some college campuses. Holy cow > has the list of things we cannot say grown lest we offend the snowflakes. > > 4) Remember the Sabbath day > Just Google “Blue Laws”, lots of stuff is based on this. Including the > spelling of an ice cream sundae. > > 5) Honor thy father and thy mother > Talk to an emancipated minor for a new view on how the law forces you to > literally obey your parents until 18. They can even force you to get a > job and take your money... > > 6) Thou shalt not kill. > Duh? > > 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. > Not only is it against the law, it is very good advice. And if you do it, > your spouse can sue your girlfriend for alienation of affection. > > 8) Thou shalt not steal. > ibid Duh? > > 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. > Slander, Libel, just ask the tabloids if this has ever been an issue. > > 10) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy > neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor > his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's. > > Scheming is illegal and scheming normally starts in coveting. > > So far I am arguably batting 1000, but wait there’s more! > > Things as arcane as the time periods between bankruptcy “At the end of > every seven years you shall grant a remission of debts. “ > > Look at Exodus 21 and 22, most of our tort laws can be traced to this. > Property laws are in there. > > Some folks really hate to admit that the bible had anything to do with our > constitution or the founding of our nation. But some folks think that > Sandy Hook was a fabrication too.... > > > From: Jeremy > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 7:54 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - trolling again > > " > > Argument One: Our Legal System is Based on the Ten Commandments > > The legal system of the United States of America is based on the U.S. > Constitution, which includes its own Ten Commandments, if you will. It > starts off with ten rules which ensure the freedoms we have come to know > and love in this modern democracy. The very first one—in fact the very > first line of the Bill of Rights—says that government shouldn’t be in the > business of favoring one set of religious beliefs over another. Religious > liberty is something Americans have historically taken very seriously, and > we have always tried to remember that the only way one person can be free > to worship as she pleases is if everyone else is free to worship as they > please (or by extension free not to worship at all). > > In short, it stipulates that one God cannot be placed above all the > others. That’s bedrock for religious liberty in this country. No > favoritism. > > Now let’s look at the Ten Commandments of the Bible. That set of rules > begins with the exact opposite assertion: That there is only one true > God—ostensibly that would be the God of the Hebrews, Yahweh—and all others > are illegitimate. “You shall have no other gods before me,” it says as > clear as day. > > So right out of the gate, we’ve got a fundamental conflict between these > two sets of rules. One is fundamentally pluralistic and “secular” in the > sense that it resolves to be nonsectarian, free from entanglement with any > one denominational belief set. The other is just the opposite–it prohibits > any other commitments and places this One True Faith above all over belief > systems. These two ideologies are diametrically opposed to each other. I > don’t see how anyone who’s thinking very hard about this can escape the > conclusion that you have to choose which of these two ideologies should > govern our local, state, and federal governments. > > What you do in your own houses of worship is another story. According to > the way our government is set up, in the private sphere an individual, a > family, or a religious community is free to worship (or not worship) as > they see fit. But in a nation founded on the principle of nonsectarian > pluralism, you simply cannot say that our legal system is based on the > dictates of one religion or another, least of all one that starts out the > way the Ten Commandments does. > > Incidentally I could go on and cover other things that don’t sit right as > well. For example, the notion of observing a Sabbath (that’s on Saturdays, > btw) isn’t exactly carried over into the New Testament, and simply saying > that you worship on Sundays isn’t the same thing, strictly speaking. We > don’t have laws about making graven images either (which is a good thing > considering this monument is literally a graven image), nor can we possibly > legislate coveting. > > Come to think of it, can you imagine how the arch-capitalists among the > GOP would howl if we began to write laws about coveting? Good heavens. > Are you really sure you want to say the Ten Commandments should be the > basis for American legal system? But I digress… > > Those things which you can extract from the Ten Commandments which made > their way into our legal code like lying, stealing, and murder predated the > Hebrew religion by many centuries and are nearly universal among belief > systems the world over. So it’s not really accurate to talk as if the Ten > Commandments are the sole proprietary basis for those things, either." > -Neil Potter > > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: > > Excellent points. > > On Dec 21, 2016 8:46 PM, "Jeremy" mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: > > Because it gives the appearance that government is favoring a specific > religion, in violation of the 14th amendment. It shows a lack of > separation of church and state. If we are going to allow christian > displays on public property then we also have to allow the Church of Satan > to erect Baphomet as well. The issue is that Satanic churches, Muslims, > and Secular belief systems are not given the same rights as Christians. > Just look at the Atheists and agnostics who have attempted to give the > opening invocations at our legislature meetings all over the country, and > the reactions that they got. They have been berated and disrespected. > This is the ground zero for the establishment of a government-favored > religion. > > "The claim that America was founded as a “Christian nation” is at best a > gross over-simplification and at worst a myth fabricated in order to > manipulate contemporary sensibilities. Many of the prominent “Founding > Fathers,” were in fact not Christians in the sense that contemporary > evangelical, mainline Protestant, and Roman Catholic churches understand > the term. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Benjamin > Franklin, and a host of others were Deists, or at least influenced by deist > philosophy. They conceived of God as a divine watchmaker – this > impersonal, inaccessible deity set the universe in motion then sat back and > watched history unfold completely independent of any transcendent > intervention, miracles, or divine-human relationships (Jefferson famously > edited the New Testament to remove all references to Jesus as a divine > miracle worker and render him merely a moral philosopher). The position of > these Founding Fathers was far from any orthodox theology of divine > immanence. > > > > Further, the idea that the United States could be a “Christian nation” is > theologically problematic. The only “Christian nation” which the New > Testament envisions is the Kingdom of God, which transcends national, > cultural, and ethnic boundaries. Were the United States to be a “Christian > nation,” she would have to do more than celebrate Christmas as a federal > holiday and display the Ten Commandments in her courthouses. If she were > held to the same standards to which the New Testament holds the Christian > community, the United States would have to embody Christian principles, > including the mandate to love one’s enemy, eschew power, put away the > sword, give freely without any expectation of repayment, and – because she > is very rich – sell all her material possessions, donate the proceeds to > the poor, then take up a cross of discipleship. The consumerism and > materialism which characterize so much of the American ethos – Jefferson’s > “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” was a modification of John > Locke’s “life, liberty, and the pursuit of property,” and indeed most > versions of the American Dream equate property with happiness – seem to be > at odds with most versions of core Christian values. In short, the United > States is not a “Christian nation,” and simply displaying representations > of the Ten Commandments in public locations does not change this reality." > > > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Jaime Solorza > mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote: > > yep but you will probably be yelling oh God when under dangerous or > extremely pleasurable situation, > Like Blood Sweat and Tears said, "I know there is no heaven, but I pray > there is no Hell!" > zaz...in your face > > > Jaime Solorza > Wireless Systems Architect > 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390> > > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:39 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm > mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: > > so, we use the Gregorian calendar which is named after a pope... I wonder > if I can skip court dates on the grounds it offends me > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com > wrote: > > Roadside displays should be free speech. > > > Anything guvmint should be looked at suspiciously. Whether it is > christian, jewish, muslim, pagan, or whatever. > > > On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 12:46 PM, Jay Weekley > mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net wrote: > > > > > Maybe. All those displays of Lady Justice at the court houses have to go. > > Chuck McCown wrote: > > How about flowers or crosses on the side of the road where someone died? > > > > Do you tear down the pyramids or stone hinge? > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Jay Weekley > > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 1:42 PM > > To: af@afmug.com > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - trolling again > > > > Do you stop all religious displays or just Christian, Jewish or Muslim? > > There are plenty of religious symbols from ancient religions all over > > public property. I'd kind of like them removed as well. > > > > Lewis Bergman wrote: > >> I have a friend who is an atheist. He compares it to how I feel about > >> any resources from my tax money going to abortion. Not sure I agree > >> with the equivalency of the resources involved but I can see his > >> point. If that is his only issue with my stance I would like to ask > >> to stop all displays of Nativity Scenes in trade for not funding any > >> abortions. Anyway, I thought his argument was fairly reasoned. > >> > >> I still ddon't understand why they care. It seems some are just > >> purely to try and rub Christians nose in the fact they don't believe > >> and think you are stupid for doing so. I view it like a lot of > >> things. I don't care f you are gay or straight, married or just > >> living with someone, Dem or Rep. As long as it doesn't affect me I > >> simply don't give a shit. > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:09 PM That One Guy /sarcasm > >> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> attention seeking behavior > >> > >> most of these "athiests" "agnostics" "satanists" whatever "ist" > >> they present as, couldnt even tell you the basic tenets of their > >> "ist" and all they do is parrot simplistic talking points from the > >> borg of nevergrewups ... "if you celebrate christmas, than a > >> pagan" nonsense like that > >> > >> society has slowly moved to the age of adulthood being a sliding > >> scale, with fewer and fewer on the lower end every generation. > >> > >> the bulk of actual athiests, agnostics, satanists and other non > >> attention whore ists could really give a shit less what others do > >> > >> just remember, just because the loudmouth makes the most noise, it > >> doesnt mean they represent the majority of their fellows. Also, > >> remember, everyone is unique, just like everyone else. > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com > >> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> > >> We have days on the calendar about people. > >> Presidents day used to be Wash’n and Linc’n bdays. > >> MLK day. > >> Casmir Pulaski day. > >> Columbus day. > >> So, why are the atheists and others so unhappy about displays > >> on public property about Jesus. > >> I doubt anyone in Illinios would get unhappy if the local park > >> had a Lincoln-Douglas plaque... actually Quincy had exactly > >> that. > >> Public displays frequently celebrate or inform about events in > >> history. > >> Our legal system has its basis in the bible, with some of the > >> legal doctrine based on the advise of Jesus. > >> He lived. He taught. He gave advice. It affected history. > >> Just like MLK. > >> But on MLK day do the pentagram sculptures try to share space > >> with MLK events? > >> I don’t get why the Jesus events on public property are such > >> an insult or affront to some people. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't > >> see > >> your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of > >> the team. > >> > >> No virus found in this message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> <http://www.avg.com/> > >> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13627 - Release Date: > >> 12/21/16 > >> > > > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13629 - Release Date: > > 12/21/16 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team > as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
