We don't know what we don't know.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:48:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Could be.
I read an article profiling a bunch of mass shooters/killers.
* In almost all cases people thought they were a super nice, quiet guy. One
exception being the Orlando night club shooter, who apparently was kind of an
obnoxious dudebro.
* A disproportionate number of them had divorced parents.
* Almost all of them were young. The Vegas guy being 64 is an exception.
* I know some of you are thinking Jihadist, but that's actually the
exception rather than the rule. That said, having a crazy belief system of some
type is usually a part of it....conspiracy theories, CIA mind control, and
other such crap.
* Feeling disenfranchised is common.
None of these are reliable indicators though. The profile "nice, young guy with
divorced parents and some unusual beliefs" is not really a profile. That's
millions of people.
If there was a way to narrow that down it would be great, but even if you had a
reliable test for who's likely to snap and go on a rampage, who would you
administer the test to? Everyone?
-Adam
------ Original Message ------
From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/3/2017 9:37:48 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
More accurately it might be said that with our current knowledge of mental
health and his exposure to others, we didn't see a mental health problem. You
have to have something wrong in your head to do what he did. We need to
increase our mental health research and once we have something concrete, make
sure we have awareness of what to look for.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Trimmell" < atrimm...@precisionds.com >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 8:33:19 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
In my eyes I don’t foresee a way to catch this sort of thing unless you have
some sort of “Minority Report” from the movies. Early reports state the guy had
no mental health issues and had one citation that was removed through the court
system. The story is he had 2 homes and gambled online and didn’t talk to his
neighbors much. Sounds like most of the people I know or have known. I live in
a huge community and no one talks to their neighbors anymore and everyone
spends way too much time online ____________ or doing something.
Evil will always find a way to hinder our lives. If we ban guns they’ll do the
same thing they did on 9/11 and fly planes into more buildings. Australia
doesn’t have guns and people have recently began driving cars into crowds of
people to have the same effect. Do we ban cars? Murder is already banned in
every place on Earth but it happens every second. The most important thing is
that we as the non-crazy people that we stick together and figure out a
solution. We can’t continue down this road of divisive chatter, not just here
but as a whole society. Too often online and on TV people talking about one
group hating another and then mitigate it with more hate through personal
attacks, threats etc.
Remember we’re the good guys (most of us). Let’s also remember we’re on the
same side.
Best Regards,
Andy Trimmell
Systems Engineer
PDS Connect
317-831-3000
From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
The only reason we have not experienced a attack of this class with a WMD is
because plutonium is fucking hard to get..
From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of " li...@packetflux.com " <
li...@packetflux.com >
Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com >
Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 12:05 AM
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
After some thought on the whole 'could tougher gun control have prevented this
tragedy' topic, I've sort of come to the conclusion that with one possible
exception, there really isn't anything which would have made much of a
difference.
Assuming that the shooter has a perfectly clean record (he did), you have to
look at what restrictions you're willing to put on recreational gun owners. In
every case I've thought of (restricting total number of guns, restricting ammo
purchases, etc.), it seems based on the information we have that this attack
could have been carried out with access to the exact same arsenal that a
recreational gun user should have access to. (Assuming one buys into the belief
that there should be recreational gun users - let's NOT go down that path,
since that would definitely end up leading to somewhere we don't want to go on
this list).
The only possible additional restriction I can see which may have helped is
further restricting devices designed to effectively convert non-automatic
weapons to automatic functions. I find it irrational that one would restrict
automatic weapons, but would not apply similar restrictions to "conversion"
products. On the other hand, I can think of dozens of ways to modify a
semi-automatic to automatic functions, many of which made easier to accomplish
with the prevalence of 3d printing.
Which leads me to the belief that we need to go deeper into the cause here.
Access to guns is not the problem. Having people who want to use guns (or other
weapons) in this way is the problem - the question is how do we solve that one?
Gino A. Villarini
President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:39 PM, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com >
wrote:
We have the FOID in IL. You cannot buy or transport firearms or ammo without
your card on you. Our CCL is a completely separate card, and yep, you gotta
have both on you to carry.
Our waiting periods are 1 day for long guns, 3 days for hand guns. Our
4473s/background checks are ran through both the IL State Police and NICS.
So no, it is not "easy" to buy guns legally for the law-abiding here.
None of this stops the gang bangers from getting guns. Nor the quiet nut jobs.
On 10/2/2017 6:05 PM, Jason Wilson wrote:
<blockquote>
I need to clarify my last message. in California we have the pleasure of
waiting 10 days before we can pick up the firearms that we purchased. in the
state of Nevada there is no waiting period and they can be purchased over the
counter
On Oct 2, 2017 3:26 PM, "Carl Peterson" < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > wrote:
<blockquote>
How on earth does someone buy that many guns and that much ammo without setting
off all sorts of sirens? You would think ATF would have some sort of triggers
set for when someone buys a bunch of guns and ammo.
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jaime Solorza < losguyswirel...@gmail.com >
wrote:
59 dead, 527 injured,. 18 more guns found at one home with thousands of rounds
plus electronics of some kind.
On Oct 2, 2017 1:30 PM, "George Skorup" < george.sko...@cbcast.com > wrote:
s/clip/magazine
Sorry Bill, had to.
On 10/2/2017 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
<blockquote>
Based on what I heard (so far), it had to take many minutes; maybe 15 or 20 or
so. From the sound, you could hear what sounded like automatic weapon fire
going and going until the clip was empty (and it sounded like a big clip). Then
there was a brief pause (people on the scene described it as "30 seconds"),
then another round with another clip. There were at least 6 or 7 clips.
There are probably eye witness errors in the above description, but if it's
even close to correct, it is pretty scary.
bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 10/2/2017 10:08 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
<blockquote>
How long did this event last?
>From the time he started shooting how long until police found him and he
>killed himself ?
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
I think the best thing to do is wait to see if the authorities can find a
motive. I’ve got family up there in Law Enforcement but haven’t heard from them
yet.
Rory
From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 9:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
+1, let's please not get into a political fight.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/2/2017 12:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
<blockquote>
While I won't get into gun politics I will say there are a bunch of extremely
fervent views on the subject. All dearly felt with logical reasons behind them.
I am not sure the opposing sides think the opposition's reasons are valid. I
think we can agree, without political discussions, that crazy is crazy. And
while I hate to see this like everyone else, I don't think most freedom loving
people would be willing to do what it takes to stop all potentially crazy
people from doing such things.
I would hope to head off any political debates on the list.
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM Jeremy < jeremysmi...@gmail.com > wrote:
<blockquote>
I had never seen these bump stop devices. It is hard to believe that they are
legal, and do not require a machine gun license. I expect that will not last.
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jaime Solorza < losguyswirel...@gmail.com >
wrote:
Well crazy is crazy no matter what. I don't care what allegiance they
claim..this was a massacre committed by a fucked up person. People died for no
good reason. As much heat as I will take for this, easy access to guns has got
to change. Fuck the politics.
On Oct 2, 2017 10:10 AM, "Cameron Crum" < cc...@wispmon.com > wrote:
Well that is some relief.
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Robert < i...@avantwireless.com > wrote:
<blockquote>
FBI says no...
On 10/2/17 9:09 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
<blockquote>
ISIS is claiming he was a recent convert and they are responsible, not verified
yet, but if true is pretty scary.
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto: lewis.berg...@gmail.com >> wrote:
I have never been asked any questions coming in and out of Vegas
hotels. There are so many conventions they are used to people who
don't like storing all their expensive gear in the conference room
or whatever.
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:49 AM Steve Jones
< thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >> wrote:
10 rifles and 10k rounds isnt alot of real estate for travel
luggage transport
On Oct 2, 2017 10:35 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
< losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto: losguyswirel...@gmail.com >>
wrote:
Bet you surveillance footage is getting analyzed. I am
aware guns can be disassembled to fit in suitcase or travel
bags...but 10 guns if report is accurate...wow.
On Oct 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "Robert" < i...@avantwireless.com
<mailto: i...@avantwireless.com >> wrote:
Expect metal detectors going in immediately...
On 10/2/17 7:56 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
I won't be surprised if there were baggage checks at
the casino.
Mike Hammett wrote:
It would be irrational to change your plans, but
we're all just people.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
< http://www.ics-il.com/ >
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser"
< lists.wavel...@gmail.com
<mailto: lists.wavel...@gmail.com >>
*To: * af@afmug.com <mailto: af@afmug.com >
*Sent: *Monday, October 2, 2017 9:44:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting
I wonder if attendance to the WISPA show will be
down from this
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Jay Weekley
< par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto: par...@cyberbroadband.net >
<mailto: par...@cyberbroadband.net
<mailto: par...@cyberbroadband.net >>> wrote:
A week later and some of us may have been
at the concert.
Robert wrote:
A best friend and his brother were
there and had bullets
wizzing by him and hitting the ground
around him and had
people falling around him.
On 10/2/17 4:12 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
I have a co-worker who is there on
a vacation for his
birthday until Wednesday. Haven't
heard from him yet.
On Oct 2, 2017 5:51 AM, "Forrest
Christian (List Account)"
< li...@packetflux.com
<mailto: li...@packetflux.com >
<mailto: li...@packetflux.com
<mailto: li...@packetflux.com >>
<mailto: li...@packetflux.com
<mailto: li...@packetflux.com >
<mailto: li...@packetflux.com
<mailto: li...@packetflux.com >>>> wrote:
I'm not really even sure what
to say. This keeps
getting worse and
worse as more details come in.
A different festival on a
different night and I could
have been
among the crowd. Makes it even
more real.
-- *Forrest Christian*
/CEO//, PacketFlux
Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345
<tel: 406-449-3345 > <tel: 406-449-3345
<tel: 406-449-3345 >> | Address: 3577
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<mailto: forre...@imach.com >>> |
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</blockquote>
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