Transmit amps are not ever required as far as I have seen on a wide area system. Transmitters are high power enough. The receivers need help due to free space loss. We use RX amps when there are long coax runs to overcome that loss. If there are transmit combiners with a separate receive antenna and multicoupler that RX multicoupler compensates for the loss of the splitter. We have used Bi Directional amps for building penetration.
On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:59 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > Bi-directional amplifiers or only Tx? > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:30:12 AM > > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting > > It is possible to replace more sites with less depending on how they are > designed and what topography you are battling. We did this a number of > years ago. The big key was tower top amplifiers allowed us to eliminate the > extra sites without losing portable overage. > > Just like RadioMobile, engineering propagation programs and knowing how to > use them are a pretty big key to successfully designing a system. > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:41 PM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> DeKalb county is moving from 17 sites on VHF to 4 sites on digital. Yeah >> fucking right. >> >> If I had more county board meeting experience, I would have grilled their >> consultant when he gave stupid answers to questions, but I didn't know that >> I could counter. >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 4, 2017 7:10:59 PM >> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting >> >> Like Hammet says, not enough sites is the major issue with digital. They >> all think digital lets them get more for less. Totally not the case, as >> many agencies have found. >> >> On 10/4/2017 6:50 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >> >> In PA the state police hate the digital system. So they carry two radios >> in their cars. The state digital and their own VHF. It's stupid. >> >> On Oct 4, 2017, at 19:37, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Me thinks I am probably the only one on this list with decades of public >> safety and commercial two way radio experience and still in the business. >> I'll sum it up. >> >> - All Two Way channels are getting narrower >> - Digital is the way things are going to continue to go >> - It ain't going back >> >> It doesn't matter that 95% of the geography doesn't need it. These trends >> are driven by the dense population areas that require more spectral >> efficiency and there isn't anything anyone is going to do about it. >> FirstNet is the same thing with different bands. Second, try 12.5KHz or >> 6.25KHz without digital and see what that crap sounds like. I lived through >> it and companding was a lot worse. Most of you aren't old enough to >> remember when the channel sizes were all 50KHz instead of 25KHz and >> everything sounded beautiful. Those days aren't coming back. >> >> No matter what vocoder is used some tuning to dialect and speech helps. >> Having said all that, some voices are not going to sound good on any >> narrowband. If you come from analog wideband to narrowband digital it all >> sounds like crap. You get used the the difference and there is no issue >> understanding words or intent. >> >> In short; everything sounds better wide band, there is no wide band, get >> over it. >> >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:05 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com> >> wrote: >> >> P25 Phase-I uses the IMBE vocoder. Yeah, that kinda sounds like shit. >>> Phase-II uses the AMBE+2 vocoder, but then you have the TDMA split into two >>> time slots, i.e. half the bandwidth. Still better than IMBE. DMR/TRBO is >>> also 2-slot TDMA using AMBE+2. I use it and don't think it sounds that bad >>> at all. Add encryption overhead and it sounds worse, regardless of the >>> vocoder used. Bandwidth, bandwidth, bandwidth. >>> >>> >>> On 10/4/2017 9:27 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> >>> But it does. In a stressful situation the last thing you need is to not >>> be able to understand communication on the radio. >>> >>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:20, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hitting delete is so damn easy tho >>> >>> >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 <%28937%29%20552-2340> >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <%28937%29%20552-2343> >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> Suite 1337 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+Suite+1337+%0D+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Matt Hoppes < >>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%253Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%253D1100%252BWayne%252BSt%252B%25250D%252BSuite%252B1337%252B%25250D%252BTroy,%252BOH%252B45373%2526entry%253Dgmail%2526source%253Dg%253E%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%2B%253Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%253D1100%252BWayne%252BSt%252B%25250D%252BSuite%252B1337%252B%25250D%252BTroy,%252BOH%252B45373%2526entry%253Dgmail%2526source%253Dg%253E%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+Suite+1337+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+%0D+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%253Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%253D1100%252BWayne%252BSt%252B%25250D%252BSuite%252B1337%252B%25250D%252BTroy,%252BOH%252B45373%2526entry%253Dgmail%2526source%253Dg%253E%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%2B%253Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%253D1100%252BWayne%252BSt%252B%25250D%252BSuite%252B1337%252B%25250D%252BTroy,%252BOH%252B45373%2526entry%253Dgmail%2526source%253Dg%253E%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+Troy,+OH+45373+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> Maybe if they weren't running P 25 or >>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+%0D+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%253Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%253D1100%252BWayne%252BSt%252B%25250D%252BSuite%252B1337%252B%25250D%252BTroy,%252BOH%252B45373%2526entry%253Dgmail%2526source%253Dg%253E%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%2B%253Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%253D1100%252BWayne%252BSt%252B%25250D%252BSuite%252B1337%252B%25250D%252BTroy,%252BOH%252B45373%2526entry%253Dgmail%2526source%253Dg%253E%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+Suite+1337+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+%0D+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%253Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%253D1100%252BWayne%252BSt%252B%25250D%252BSuite%252B1337%252B%25250D%252BTroy,%252BOH%252B45373%2526entry%253Dgmail%2526source%253Dg%253E%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%2B%253Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%253D1100%252BWayne%252BSt%252B%25250D%252BSuite%252B1337%252B%25250D%252BTroy,%252BOH%252B45373%2526entry%253Dgmail%2526source%253Dg%253E%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E+Troy,+OH+45373+%3Chttps://maps.google.com/?q%3D1100%2BWayne%2BSt%2B%250D%2BSuite%2B1337%2B%250D%2BTroy,%2BOH%2B45373%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg%3E&entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> whatever that digital compression crap is on the radio's conversation >>>> would've flown a little bit better. For some reason digital radio get sold >>>> over and over and over to Public Safety as being the cats meow, but here in >>>> Pennsylvania is a great example of how it just doesn't work. We spend >>>> millions of dollars retrofitting a system just to start trying to go to >>>> another one. >>>> >>>> The last thing you need in a stressful situation is everyone sounding >>>> in the abbreviated and codex scaling down because the signal level going to >>>> repeater isn't good >>>> >>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:13, Jason McKemie < >>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The zones could have been wrong - it happens. >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, Matt Hoppes < >>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Right but if the fire alarm is what led them there, shouldn't there of >>>>> been a big red light flashing on the annunciator panel for what room it >>>>> was? >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:04, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Could have been caused by all kinds of shit. Takes awhile for the >>>>> brain to work. That night was pure chaos with all kinds of false reports. >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 4, 2017 8:01 AM, "Matt Hoppes" < >>>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> So as long as we are so off-topic on this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this seem odd to anyone else? I feel like if there is an alarm >>>>>> going off, the fire panel would indicate the room it was in. >>>>>> >>>>>> "The SWAT team utilized the alarm activated by the smoke to determine >>>>>> Paddock's location. But it still took SWAT some 20 minutes from the time >>>>>> they arrived at the hotel to pinpoint the exact room Paddock was located >>>>>> in, according to The Post." >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 08:54, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The description of sackcloth doesn't sound like doesn't sound like >>>>>> something I'd want to use for what it's name implies. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From: *"James Howard" <ja...@litewire.net> >>>>>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:19:22 PM >>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting >>>>>> >>>>>> Sackcloth and ashes for everyone! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown >>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 3:08 PM >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Because we invoked Lent due to things that transpired last fall. I >>>>>> think it is time to remind everyone that it is still Lent at AnimalFarm. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Jeremy >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:56 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This isn't a message board, with 'threads' that can be closed. It is >>>>>> an email list, and people can say whatever the hell they want. Why is >>>>>> everyone so sensitive to constructive or even non-constructive debate? >>>>>> Bunch of pussies.... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Carl Peterson < >>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Can we either drop this discussion or open it up to real discussion? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> So we should just chemically castrate any male over 26 or so. >>>>>> Medically neuter the population. >>>>>> >>>>>> We can start with Steve. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> bp >>>>>> >>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/3/2017 7:57 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Sheeple should really be more concerned about identifying day to day >>>>>> criminals than mass murderers. Gangs have more mass murderers walking the >>>>>> streets next to you daily today than all the combined mass murderers in >>>>>> the >>>>>> history of the country. The city of chicago has a higher shooting/kill >>>>>> count this year than this guy. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Worrying about identifying mass shooters beforehand is the epitome >>>>>> not seeing the forrest through the trees. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Really should have killed this thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 3, 2017 9:50 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Reports on NPR is that there were both full auto as well as >>>>>> "conversions" in the assortment of 23-some-odd weapons found in the room. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> bp >>>>>> >>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com >>>>>> >>>>>>
