That is always a problem. And much more so if your product has software inside. My products I can put them into production, take them out, advertise, not advertise pretty much on a whim.
When you have software you always have features, oddities, perhaps bugs, anomalies that need to be hunted down and killed. Software is born, lives and dies but is never done. When I was doing software dependent products I spent all my spare time adding features and killing bugs. I like this much better the way I do them now... From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:03 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux? Of course, that might lead Forrest back to the initial place in this thread which was "I didn't sell that many of them". Not saying he wouldn't, but he has mouths to feed and only one of him. As a result he tries to gauge interest before taking on projects. I'll bet he could tell you pretty quick if it seems like something he would be interested in. On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:06 PM Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com> wrote: Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be opposites, which is why I would think the best way to do what I suggested would be to make the module a pricier option, not a default. A multi-purpose tool has the potential to be more useful to a wider range of people than something which is practically a uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a RackInjector to replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a deployed RackInjector while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut off during the process is even less so. Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to each of the jumper blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to build-out a new site. Front-swappable might also work (maybe each card could be in a drawer-like setting with a front-accessible screw or two to lock it down most of the time) if we’re keeping the jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming… From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux? Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No. And neither does Forrest. We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it. Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the RackInjector be easily front swappable like storage on a server. Again, complexity and cost. On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote: Forrest, That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does that modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would be possible to design a module which would replace the jumper options on the current RackInjector with a fully controllable, web-accessible, interface? Honestly, that’s the only reason we haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are mixing PMP450 and 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that having to partially disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a statistically likely and pretty daunting task. Having a module to give the programmable flexibility of a LMG CTM-2M, for instance, without having to remove the unit from the rack, open up the case, and move around jumpers when switching AP types would be a big thing… Thanks, n Darren From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account) Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM To: af Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux? I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of things. Getting the rackinjector out the door took pretty much all of our R&D engineering for the last year or so. BUT... there's a reason for this, and it is related to the technology which is underpinning the web interface on that device. And which is related to our fairly near-term future as far as packetflux goes... The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is far more layered and abstracted than it would need to be to provide just the web interface. Every piece of data is abstracted into a generic data format inside the unit, and the system is designed in a way to greatly simplify the addition of additional features. The overriding idea is an on-site system which is able to gather up status from the entire site and also be able to control an entire site. To sort of give you a glimpse, in the rackinjector, there is a module for gathering up data from a NMEA GPS stream (GPS lock status, etc), a separate module for measuring the timing of the PPS pulses, a separate module for the analog digital controllers, another module to pull data from sitemonitor expansions (the expansion cards in the rackinjector are running the same underlying protocol as the sitemonitor expansion cards are today), and so on. Each of these modules pull data from their information source and makes it available in a generic manner to the system. For instance, the number of satellites in view is accessed in exactly the same way internally as a voltage reading. This abstraction allows me to add additional modules to pull data quickly - all I have to do is to create a chunk of code to pull data from say a solar charge controller or pull values via SNMP from a radio. The difficulty varies of course based on how hard it is to access the data, but it's a lot easier than writing an entire stack for each device. Today the rackinjector is running what we call internally the "DeviceManager" code on top of this. Generally what this is is a purpose-built web interface which is built on the underlying architecture. The web-interface actually pulls the data it needs from the underlying system using another generic chunk of code so it is relatively easy for us to add additional fields and support for additional devices. The "DeviceManager SNMP" module allows quick development of SNMP mibs again for specific purpose appliances. There's a few other tricks coming as well. Our intent with this code base is to build a set of specific-purpose appliances to pull data largely from one device or a couple of devices and provide it in a simplified manner to the user. For instance a Solar Charge controller monitor. Or a RackInjector controller. The key point here is that the DeviceManager codebase is designed largely to hide all of this from the end-user, while making it easy for us to build these products quickly. Now, back to the main point: This same flexible architecture permits us to also build various automated control systems on top of the same underlying architecture. If you replace the fixed-function devicemanager interface with a programmable, scriptable, flexible interface, all sorts of things start to happen. Including all of the items we're discussing in this thread. We already sell all of the physical interfaces needed to get a generator controller running - you can plug a unregulated power supply into a voltage input to get a rough idea of the AC voltage, or can get the DC voltage using another voltage input. You have contact closures in the form of another sitemonitor expansion module. And so on. What is missing is some sort of on-site automation, and that's where we've been heading with this entire architecture for about 2 years now. I don't know how quickly this is going to happen. The next 30 days I'm focused on 'finishing' the rackinjector - meaning shipping the cambium sync cards and the new 'either polarity' cards, and getting a new firmware out for it which has the "Devicemanager SNMP" code running in it. Once that is done we can re-focus on how to prioritize the future of this architecture. On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote: Forrest, We had a discussion about this as we now have 4 generators and I have 3 of your standby controllers taking care of these sites without issue since we installed them. Would it be feasible to just remove the Transformers and just give a link for separate purchase ? My issue as with many would like to see a box with many inputs to monitor different things like AC,DC voltages, tempatures make and brake contacts. Also, the need for active outputs to turn on off things or just for a cycle with timer. A nice gui would be ok to be able to log in for manual control or configuration. There are some very expensive things out there to do all of this but I know with a little work it can be done with out much money involved. I have a very specific need to integrate a 26vDC generator with a site that is a 48v plant. I have everything installed and connected but I need some automation to start and stop when needed. The generator has a voltage sense on its output to detect if the battery bank is below 22vdc and if so it will kick on for an amount of time to restore charge. The problem with this is there is a 1000W converter between it and the 48v battery bank. Anyone with suggestions is welcome Dave On 12/21/2017 03:18 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: The short version: I never sold that many, and this particular product came up in discussions about product liablity insurance. Not that it was unsafe, just that there was some discomfort with the fact that I was monitoring the AC power line. To remedy this I would have either had to redesign to remove the AC monitoring hardware, or send the whole thing through UL listing. Based on the volume, I didn't really see any reason to spend a lot of R&D time or money doing either. I do expect the functionality in the generator controller will be able to be replicated as a side effect of planned technology to be incorporated in an upcoming product. On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote: Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants? On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote: Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore. On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote: I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of the box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3 times as much. First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to make sure it is actually started and producing current. If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such but it doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, raspberry pi, etc. Could do this but you have to build it all yourself. Not really fast but fun if you like that kind of thing. You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to spend a few days googling. I guess you still have to know enough to make Google work. Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in this list use it. On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote: assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired for electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for RV use and similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to crank a starter, then turn off the relay again. one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/ and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/ or a thing like this: http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with basic http interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support things like receiving an snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting. On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz <li...@gogebicrange.net> wrote: We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid site we have and I am gathering information on options at this point. Right now we are all Solar at the site. It’s a new site and if / when we draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the site turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back on and that’s the end of the process. We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely once a week in December and January. So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am not the first one of us to want to do this. Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do this with minimal training. Thanks, Brandon -- Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com -- -- Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
