I cannot speak for SAF as a mfg. but most distributors (including ones selling SAF) do offer a package. Most of them are not marking it up . The only ones that I know had a discount negotiated for coordination fess is Mimosa.
Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom http://www.snappytelecom.net Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 8:52:35 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz > If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it. If I turned it down it > was because I could save money by not taking the package. > So, if this exists, it exists. Does SAF do this? Last radios I put up were > SAF. > From: Faisal Imtiaz > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz > I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling > license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa, > they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job > done at a discounted rate. > So, what I am missing... ? > Regards. > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > http://www.snappytelecom.net > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz >> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you >> should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your >> customers. >> Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price. >> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy >> tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas. >> Ford >> may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can >> certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in recent memory the >> dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate >> too. >> From: Faisal Imtiaz >> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz >> >>. I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. >> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to >> the >> Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have >> such >> an opinion..... and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context >> ... >> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering >> the >> opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to >> support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, >> unless >> they are backed up to the reason why. >> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please >> everyone ..... FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their >> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products >> shine >> in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. >> Needs >> to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective.. >> In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a >> little >> bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is >> physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in >> gaining >> a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between >> 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with >> Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with >> Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ). >> I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being >> high >> ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I >> would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this... >> :) >> Happy Weekend. >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> http://www.snappytelecom.net >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >>> From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz >>> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the >>> 5ghz stuff >>> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: >>>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas. >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>> The Brothers WISP >>>> From: "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz >>>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region. >>>> Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you >>>> 24 GHZ >>>> is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy >>>> in a >>>> desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him >>>> here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies >>>> yout rain zone, it really matters. >>>> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th >>>> market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally >>>> nothing.... >>>> Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for >>>> 200mb... >>>> just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, >>>> UBNT >>>> 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before >>>> Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys. >>>> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick >>>> about >>>> it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central >>>> Indiana, >>>> you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get a >>>> link >>>> because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could impact >>>> that >>>> link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not >>>> complaining, if >>>> I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too. >>>> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, >>>> put it >>>> on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You >>>> know >>>> what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice double frappe >>>> vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, and take it to >>>> your >>>> shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary >>>> had a >>>> little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse. >>>> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put >>>> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, >>>> not if >>>> the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my >>>> friends. >>>> The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully squat some >>>> spectrum on the cheap. >>>> FWIW >>>> Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im >>>> only a >>>> decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and smacked me >>>> like a >>>> wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long before I made >>>> some >>>> bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a woman. Know where >>>> you are >>>> and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full bukakee on a housewife. >>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: >>>>> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from >>>>> the >>>>> AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high >>>>> throughput. We >>>>> gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas >>>>> anyway. >>>>> bp >>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: >>>>>> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to >>>>>> the B11, >>>>>> but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do >>>>>> more >>>>>> throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one >>>>>> direction >>>>>> with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can >>>>>> only get >>>>>> around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex >>>>>> radio >>>>>> though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 >>>>>> split). >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 >>>>>>> GHz. Medium >>>>>>> (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz. >>>>>>> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more >>>>>>> throughput on >>>>>>> less spectrum. Probably less expensive too. >>>>>>> bp >>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote: >>>>>>>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out >>>>>>>> again to >>>>>>>> hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>> doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last >>>>>>>> couple of >>>>>>>> years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are >>>>>>>> starting to >>>>>>>> see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make >>>>>>>> the jump >>>>>>>> to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for >>>>>>>> that.�� The >>>>>>>> links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the >>>>>>>> limits of the >>>>>>>> 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are >>>>>>>> in range >>>>>>>> for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell >>>>>>>> us.�� For >>>>>>>> 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it >>>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>>> well and have all the management tools in place for it.�� For 24 >>>>>>>> GHz we�d >>>>>>>> likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much familiarity >>>>>>>> with any >>>>>>>> other options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros >>>>>>>> and Cons of >>>>>>>> the two options: >>>>>>>> � >>>>>>>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros: >>>>>>>> * Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the >>>>>>>> license and >>>>>>>> require less babysitting for interference >>>>>>>> 1. >>>>>>>> Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for >>>>>>>> us as it >>>>>>>> looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for >>>>>>>> sure and >>>>>>>> likely the AF 24 as well >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> Little less susceptible to rain fade >>>>>>>> � >>>>>>>> Cons: >>>>>>>> 1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost >>>>>>>> associated with it >>>>>>>> 2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before >>>>>>>> applying for >>>>>>>> the license >>>>>>>> 3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD) >>>>>>>> 4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than >>>>>>>> the HD) >>>>>>>> � >>>>>>>> � >>>>>>>> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros: >>>>>>>> 1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for >>>>>>>> all links >>>>>>>> 2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to >>>>>>>> deploy >>>>>>>> 3. Higher throughput on the HD >>>>>>>> � >>>>>>>> Cons: >>>>>>>> 1. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even >>>>>>>> quiet links now >>>>>>>> might have noise later >>>>>>>> 2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, >>>>>>>> although this >>>>>>>> isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of >>>>>>>> Ubiquiti products >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link >>>>>>>> � >>>>>>>> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with: >>>>>>>> 1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move >>>>>>>> channels if you see >>>>>>>> other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are >>>>>>>> finding it tough to >>>>>>>> figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be >>>>>>>> able to move to >>>>>>>> other channels. >>>>>>>> 2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP >>>>>>>> traffic across any of >>>>>>>> the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like a well >>>>>>>> planned link >>>>>>>> with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but >>>>>>>> looking for some real >>>>>>>> world experience. >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the >>>>>>>> ones already >>>>>>>> mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions? >>>>>>>> � >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> � >>>>>>>> David Coudron >>>>>>>> �
