If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your customers. Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price.
Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas. Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in recent memory the dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too. From: Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz >>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have such an opinion..... and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context ... As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, unless they are backed up to the reason why. I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please everyone ..... FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. Needs to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective.. In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in gaining a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ). I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this... :) Happy Weekend. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom http://www.snappytelecom.net Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the 5ghz stuff On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies yout rain zone, it really matters. but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally nothing.... Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for 200mb... just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, UBNT 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys. 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too. however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, put it on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You know what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice double frappe vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, and take it to your shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary had a little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse. And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not if the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my friends. The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully squat some spectrum on the cheap. FWIW Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im only a decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and smacked me like a wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long before I made some bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a woman. Know where you are and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full bukakee on a housewife. On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from the AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high throughput. We gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas anyway. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do more throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one direction with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can only get around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex radio though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 split). On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote: What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 GHz. Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz. I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more throughput on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote: I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last couple of years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell us.�� For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have all the management tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much familiarity with any other options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options: � Mimosa 11 GHz Pros: a.. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the license and require less babysitting for interference 1.. Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as well a.. Little less susceptible to rain fade � Cons: 1.. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost associated with it 2.. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before applying for the license 3.. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD) 4.. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD) � � Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros: 1.. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all links 2.. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy 3.. Higher throughput on the HD � Cons: 1.. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet links now might have noise later 2.. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although this isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti products a.. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link � Here are some questions we are hoping for help with: 1.. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if you see other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are finding it tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be able to move to other channels. 2.. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like a well planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but looking for some real world experience. a.. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions? � Thanks, � David Coudron �
