Well, it's good to see you're making enough headway to understand why I might have gone from:
2014's Sortocracy.org <https://sortocracy.org/minimalist-rules-for-sortocracy/> (Sensing the rise of Trumpism) 2017's Fair Ecclesia <https://fairchurch.org/TheFairChurch.html> (Sensing the quasi-religious backlash) 2020's Property Money <https://jimbowery.blogspot.com/2020/01/property-money.html> (Sensing the onset of the pandemic) 2022's Militia.Money (Sensing the the rise of robots protecting property) The progression is fairly straightforward when viewed from the perspective of masculinity's 600 million year evolutionary history of dispute processing toward nervous system construction. Of course, those of us who see no particular value in humans aren't going to be sympathetic toward any of this. I'm not sure where you stand on this but thus far you're opinions _seem_ to come down on the side that we're automatons and probably not even very good ones since value of we automatons is counted in economic productivity. (I base this on your statement about an AI governed society making humans more "productive".) On Mon, Jul 27, 2026 at 3:18 PM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> wrote: > If I understand correctly, if a person moves from country A to country B > under sortocracy, then A must also give territory to B or an equivalent > payment to buy territory of its choosing. If implemented globally, then the > territorial value would be the total value of all property ($393 trillion) > divided by population (8.3 billion), or $47,000 per person. If sortocracy > was implemented only in the US, it would be $80T/350M = $230,000. Countries > with shrinking populations like China and Japan would also make payments to > fast growing countries in Africa after each census. > Then there are those who, like Elon Musk, *claim* they see particular value in humans and even decry the population loss in the most economically advanced societies, but they don't offer anything remotely approaching clearly stated let alone justified theories of macrosocial causation upon which their interventions might be based. > How are these payments enforced? > Sortocracy is just about land value which you apparently place at about $400T. In that scenario money would change hands as part of the periodic (say 10 year) census/territory reallocation. The accounting portion could be automated with relatively simple algorithms that most anyone with a developed-world secondary school education could understand. ... This would probably require a national ID and a tracking database... No need for tracking unless you mean every decade or so you need to locate which people are identified with which State. Globally, the UN would have a passport database of everyone on the planet, > and a strong peacekeeping force to enforce it. > Not even close. How would this work with privately armed militias declaring their state a > sortocracy of one? > Presumably this is an attempted *reductio ad absurdum*, but it is quite common for there to be minimum census counts to be elegible for various statutory identities. There are lots of ways to "poke holes" in anything so long as you don't have to come up with alternatives that accomplish the same objectives, Matt. In this case, the "hole" is a hyperparameter of the system that, along with all its othe hyperparameters, are far fewer in number (ie: small "argument surface") than anything that provides remotely comparaible individual consent. > -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 11:41 AM James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: > >> New individuals qualify for admission to Sortocracy under one of 2 >> conditions: >> Inheritance: For example, an ancestor of a child may will his membership >> to a descendant. >> Territorial acquisition: A State admitting an individual as a new member >> of Sortocracy must add territory to Sortocracy equal in value a member’s >> territorial rent. >> >> So, under your premise, that the US would sort proponents of social >> theories into governments that test them, *the most uncharitable reading* >> of the above would be that current citizens of the US would be the intial >> members of Sortocracy. A much more reasonable reading of sortocracy would >> be that the recent history if immigration that violated the consent of more >> than a supermajority since at least 1965, would be preceded not by mere >> "remigration", but by drafting the men in the US that were here because of >> current illegitimate US government, and arming them to impose sortocracy on >> those lands. This means sortocracy would be imposed on most of the land >> mass of Earth, while resetting the distribution of population to a more >> natural state. >> >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2026 at 8:06 AM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> The value of all residential and commercial property and land on Earth >>> is $393 trillion. The US share is $80 trillion, but has only 4% of the >>> world population. Under sortocracy, the US would have a debt of $65 >>> trillion to the global authority for allocation of property, which could be >>> repaid by admitting 1.7 billion immigrants from mostly poor countries. Is >>> this how sortocracy is supposed to work? >>> >>> -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2026, 6:02 PM James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> You'd have your "government run by AI" and he'd have pretty much >>>> whatever form of government he wants within the very simple "vote with your >>>> feet" limits. Even if limited to 50 States (it would be more like 500) the >>>> likelihood that he, or you, wouldn't be admitted to a State that has >>>> whatever trade and/or migration policies (or other notions of "human >>>> rights") suits you would be virtually zero. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2026 at 4:56 PM James Bowery <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2026 at 4:26 PM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 7:40 AM John Rose via AGI <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> There is still a possibility in American to form a country within a >>>>>>> country. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Under the rules for sortocracy, the US could close the borders to >>>>>> your new country and nobody could leave or import anything. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> John's "country within a country" is merely his way of trying to get >>>>> the benefits of Sortocracy in a US where Sortocracy is not legal. With >>>>> the >>>>> US under Sortocracy, he'd already have what he wants and so would you. >>>>> > > > > *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + > delivery options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> > Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T5b58bcc51c493d41-Mef9a43784ebb15297abbb6fb> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T5b58bcc51c493d41-M0ee26537a7dfead8e8d76463 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
