You’re obviously correct but the fact that such disagreements or confusions are even possible is a massive indictment of the value attributed to concepts like being and free will.
On Sun, Sep 13, 2026 at 11:03 AM Zoltan Nadasdy <[email protected]> wrote: > Don't you think it is the other way around? > > More precisely, in the life of every kid, the concept of agency develops > first, which triggers two other concepts: the recognition of the invariance > of "agency" that gives rise to the concept of "self/being" and "free will". > Free will derives from the recognition that the same invariant agent > ("self") can make either decision A or B. No matter which way it decides, > the source of the decision (the agent) remains the same. That is free will. > And it is an illusion, because the decision could be biased by numerous > factors, yet it feels like the alternative always presented itself to the > agent. Moreover, it is an illusion because it is not true that the decision > does not affect the agent. It does. After decision A, the agent is not the > same as before. There come counterfactuals: the speculation of what would > have happened if I had chosen B. > > These are not facts, just a theory. Not better than yours, but an > alternative. I am happy to discuss it further. > There is a book on the evolutionary aspect of this question by Tomasello: > https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262047005/the-evolution-of-agency/ > > Unfortunately, it is not a good book; he did not nail it, but Tomasello is > an authority on the subject. It means there is plenty of room for > other opinions in this discussion. > > -Zoltan > > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2026 at 6:32 AM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> To friends and acquaintances interested in philosophy, AGI, physics, a >> new blog post: >> >> >> https://linas.org/blog/2026/09/subjective-being-ness-follows-from-free-will/ >> >> The subjective experience of being, living, existing, feeling, >> experiencing and acting arises precisely because we have free will, because >> we have the ability to direct and create a future. I claim more: being >> trapped in the here-and-now is a fact of physics; it can be mathematized. I >> claim that any agent with executive control over it’s future will also feel >> alive and aware and experience the subjective inner life of feelings and >> emotions. This includes not just animals, but also plants and even >> bacteria. >> >> The ingress of possible futures from the Platonic realm into physical >> reality happens directly in the here-and-now, and the willful selection of >> possible futures manifests as conscious awareness of the subjective self. >> >> This essay is an attempt to put a dent in the "hard problem of >> consciousness" by placing a mathematical, physical foundation under it. >> >> I hope you enjoy it. (p.s. no LLM's or AI's were used to write this; >> these are my words. It took several years to put this together.) >> >> -- Linas Vepstas >> > > > -- > --- > Zoltan Nadasdy > Dept. of Neurology, Dell Medical School, UT Austin ([email protected]) > Dept. of Cognitive Psychology, ELTE Budapest [email protected] > > http://brainstim.psy.utexas.edu > > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9e51fc70bbc4e9fc-M8c340e3b5cfd2b9c98f5f194 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
