linas fair enough that makes some sense although being such a fan of complexity theory i am going to hold out on emergence as a possibility for just a little while longer but i am getting what you are laying down and its an effective argument against emergence. question about platonic space, the more you talk about it the more it sounds like just "combinatorial space" ,, can you chime in on the wording of platonic vs combinatorial space? i feel combinatorial is more descriptive but that is just me , also maybe my understanding is incomplete .. thanks for the reply.
On Sun, Sep 20, 2026 at 3:54 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Fleeky, > > I take ingress very literally. A short example: the set of all natural > numbers (integers) inhabits platonic space. However, it cannot inhabit the > universe of atoms, simply because there are not enough arrangements of > atoms that could represent every possible number. > > However, the number "42" does exist in our physical universe of atoms, > because it has been printed with ink on paper in millions of copies of > Hitchiker's Guide. It also exists as some arrangement of atoms in your > skull, right now, as you think about it. > > The number 42 has "ingressed" from platonic space into our physical > universe of atoms. > > It did not "emerge"; there is no "emergence". > > BTW, purely mechanical things can force ingress. For example, the "Great > Mersenne Prime Search" is a purely deterministic software program which is > literally searching platonic space to find certain large primes. Those > large primes do NOT exist in our physical universe until they are found. > Once found, they have ingressed. Not "emerged". No brains or biology was > needed for that. > > -- Linas > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2026 at 12:58 AM Fleeky Flanco <[email protected]> wrote: > >> thanks for the great blog post linas ! >> one side question i had re : emergence / ingression .. levin claims >> emergence is insufficient to describe everything we see and ingression more >> fully accounts.. i keep wondering if much like your sensori-motor ideas if >> emergence and ingression end up closer to something like output / input >> between a membrane ? pretty sure this ideas has flaws but regardless the >> blog was very inspiring. thanks for writing it. >> >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2026 at 2:54 AM Edvardas Ges <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> WTF, call me. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 15. Sep 2026, at 22:48, Victor Vahidi Motti <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Linas, >>> >>> Great weblog. >>> >>> It is now promoted on the >>> >>> "Planetary Observatory of the Noosphere" >>> >>> >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Victor Vahidi Motti >>> Author | Speaker | Advisor >>> >>> *Thus Spoke Arta: How Our Planet Is Entering a New Era* (2026), >>> *The Loom* (2025), >>> *Playbook of Foresight: Designing Strategic Conversations for >>> Transformation and Resilience (2025), * >>> *Planetary Foresight and Ethics: A Vision for Humanity’s Futures (2025),* >>> *A Transformation Journey to Creative and Alternative Planetary Futures* >>> (2019). >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2026, 07:32 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> To friends and acquaintances interested in philosophy, AGI, physics, a >>>> new blog post: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://linas.org/blog/2026/09/subjective-being-ness-follows-from-free-will/ >>>> >>>> The subjective experience of being, living, existing, feeling, >>>> experiencing and acting arises precisely because we have free will, because >>>> we have the ability to direct and create a future. I claim more: being >>>> trapped in the here-and-now is a fact of physics; it can be mathematized. I >>>> claim that any agent with executive control over it’s future will also feel >>>> alive and aware and experience the subjective inner life of feelings and >>>> emotions. This includes not just animals, but also plants and even >>>> bacteria. >>>> >>>> The ingress of possible futures from the Platonic realm into physical >>>> reality happens directly in the here-and-now, and the willful selection of >>>> possible futures manifests as conscious awareness of the subjective self. >>>> >>>> This essay is an attempt to put a dent in the "hard problem of >>>> consciousness" by placing a mathematical, physical foundation under it. >>>> >>>> I hope you enjoy it. (p.s. no LLM's or AI's were used to write this; >>>> these are my words. It took several years to put this together.) >>>> >>>> -- Linas Vepstas >>>> > > -- > Patrick: Are they laughing at us? > Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. > > > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9e51fc70bbc4e9fc-Me287b38966f1cbb024f01719 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
