Hi Basil,
> *Basil: *"*Are open source inference engines (coded in C++, GPL license,
> compiled
by GCC which is also a compiler mostly coded in C++ and also GPL
licensed) considered on this mailing list as AI software?"*
*Todor:
*
I do consider them AI software. I've reviewed your project several times, first
after I discovered it via your Stack Overflow account, maybe in late 2021, but
I didn't dive deeply enough in order to actually run it, use it or modify it;
the project had very specific requirements besides its complexity and advanced
level of C++. I don't recall any serious and technical discussions within the
activity of this group, though.
Thanks for sharing the paper about your DSL for GCC MELT.
GCC is an interesting beast as well - good food for thought that gives
insights into the process of performing gradual sequences of lowering, while
keeping semantic equivalence (or changing it in a desired direction); and in
reverse - elevating representations; the pattern matching that you exercise
with your language. The same goes for programming language interpreters and
compilers in general, as it does for LLVM. Some criticize GCC for its "patched"
nature, but this way it serves as a record of the historical development and a
path of a concrete reasoning process and gradual development, which is more
"realistic" and "educational" regarding the process of incremental development.
It carries "meta-info" about the evolution of the translation process.
In the paper you discuss the use of C macros and the difficulty of their
mapping to glue code in Python etc.
They are interesting pattern-matching exercises and also a step within the
logical and historical process of "highering" the code from Machine code,
simple Assemblers, more complex Macro assemblers - at different stages - etc.
Overall - these systems are more interesting, algorithmic-complexity-wise,
than most of the typical programs for ML, which are considered "AI" (excluding
the inference libraries themselves, PyTorch etc., which may be interesting
internally). A few short sections with "processing" of the "vector", stacked
layers, "optimize", "train", "if a < b then repeat". "Half a page of pseudo
code" or something as Andrew Ng once promoted. While in compilers and related
systems there is a huge amount of reasoning and logic, embedded in the design,
and more variety and complexity.
> *Basil: "*In other words, what is an advanced AI software, and what are
> examples
of advanced AI whose source code is open source (perhaps partly
generated by open source software, including itself)"
*Todor:
*
OpenCog was a big open source AGI project in C++ etc. and the very early calls
for volunteers for Ben Goertzel's AGI projects were for C++ developers. Modern
OpenCog is such software, I guess.
This is archived in the hyperbook *The Prophets of the Thinking Machines*, the
volume *"World Class AI Institutes and Strategies from Eastern Europe and the
World"* , compared to the* Russian institute* "*AIRI*" - both its title and its
goal ("Strong AI") resembled Ben's *AGIRI*, but *18-20 years later.*
.....
https://web.archive.org/web/20030206221823fw_/http://www.agiri.org/joining.htm
"We are a small team with a big project, and are always eager for bright minds
with appropriate skills, interested in joining our team.
Currently we cannot pay salaries to any new recruits, but we can offer the
thrill of being involved in what is perhaps the most exciting science and
engineering project on the planet.
We are looking for two sorts of individuals at the moment:
1. *C++ programmers, with the ability to understand moderately complex
mathematical equations*
2. Applied mathematicians or theoretical computer scientists with some
programming experience
Our work relies on a large body of non-published knowledge, so new team members
should not expect to be able to contribute significantly right away. Rather, an
initial period of study will be required, followed by participation on a
limited basis by contributing to more peripheral aspects of the project,
followed by full participation in the AI development.
If you fit into one of the above two categories, and are interested in
contributing, please contact *Ben Goertzel
<https://web.archive.org/web/20030206221823/mailto:[email protected]>*.
...
* Preserved at SIGI-2025:
https://github.com/Twenkid/SIGI-2025/blob/main/AI_Institutes_Strategies_The_Prophets_Thinking_Machines_7-9-2025.pdf
See pp.56-60+
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