Jim, 
You're missing the boat.  I'm talking about Semiosis, not Semiotics.
I'm talking about how we link signs to our internal semantic network, not how 
we take visual readings of situations (though they are close). 
~PM

Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 05:33:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [agi] Semiosis
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

First of all, my example of a couple of sentences from the Wikipedia article 
may have been a little biased because the sentences were introductory.  But, 
perhaps another example that uses that example may better illustrate my point.  
I believe that the analysis of the sentences that I made in that previous 
example is far more significant to the problem we are trying to solve then an 
analysis of semiotics.
 Now do you agree with me?  Because if you don't then you don't think my 
example which referred to my previous example where I discussed the fluffiness 
of a couple of sentences about semiotics is significant.  The thing is, if you 
do not think that my comment (that an analysis of sentences is more relevant to 
the thing we are most interested in than will be found in a discussion of 
semiotics) then the sign that I made trying to direct your attention to my 
initial analysis of the sentences did not adequately capture the significance 
of what I was saying.  And I know perfectly well that you are yet to be 
convinced.  In order to get my point across I am going to have 'point' to the 
significance of the analysis of simple sentences again in order to stress the 
point. And I will have to 'point' out that the belief that there is some 
fundamental abstraction which will make all the difference in creating an 
effective AGI program is reasonable only when you realize that any discussion 
may generate an important abstraction.  In other words, the abstraction of 
semiotics, while important in it's simplest form, is pretty shallow in its more 
elaborated form.  I am contrasting the superficiality of the elaboration of 
semiotics against the untapped potential of the analysis simple sentences to 
discover something more about how language works (in relation to our interest 
in AGI).  The problem, as I see it, is that semiotics did not work.  Formal 
computational analysis of syntax did not work.  Iconic representations and 
symbol grounding did not work.  Weighted reasoning did not work.  There is 
something that we have to discover and the ecstasy of letting every grain of 
semiotics slowly pass through your hands will not lead to that discovery.  
Analyzing simple sentences, I am saying, has a better chance to leading to 
something interesting than a discussion of semiotics.  Now, you may still 
disagree with me, but if you were willing to carefully read what I wrote you 
will have a much better idea of what I am saying.  So then you might say that 
my comments contained multiple 'signs' in order to direct your attention to my 
illustration of my point of view, but then you would just be replacing the 
analysis of how sentences work with a shallow assertion that the sentences just 
contained signs.  Even if they did (and I do not deny the basic idea that I was 
trying to 'point' something out to you) that kind of search for the semiotics 
of language is not a very vivid substitute for a more lively analysis of 
meaning.
 There has clearly been something missing in the study of concepts, and I 
believe that the study of language, as it directly might be related to AGI, is 
a good way to discover it.  The study of Semiotics is not.
Jim

                                          


-------------------------------------------
AGI
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now
RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424
Modify Your Subscription: 
https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657
Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com

Reply via email to