Actually, I should have drawn a distinction . . . . there is a major difference
between performing discovery as a scientist and evaluating data as a scientist.
I was referring to the latter (which is similar to understanding Einstein) as
opposed to the former (which is being Einstein). You clearly are referring to
the creative act of discovery (Programming is also a discovery operation).
So let me rephrase my statement -- Can a stupid person do good scientific
evaluation if taught the rules and willing to abide by them? Why or why not?
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Goertzel
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: AW: AW: [agi] Re: Defining AGI
Mark,
It is not the case that I have merely lectured rather than taught. I've
lectured (math, CS, psychology and futurology) at university, it's true ... but
I've also done extensive one-on-one math tutoring with students at various
levels ... and I've also taught small groups of kids aged 7-12, hands-on (math
& programming), and I've taught retirees various skills (mostly computer
related).
Why can't a stupid person do good science? Doing science in reality seems to
require a whole bunch of implicit, hard-to-verbalize knowledge that stupid
people just don't seem to be capable of learning. A stupid person can possibly
be trained to be a good lab assistant, in some areas of science but not others
(it depends on how flaky and how complex the lab technology involved is in that
area). But, being a scientist involves a lot of judgment, a lot of heuristic,
uncertain reasoning drawing on a wide variety of knowledge.
Could a stupid person learn to be a good scientist given, say, a thousand
years of training? Maybe. But I doubt it, because by the time they had moved
on to learning the second half of what they need to know, they would have
already forgotten the first half ;-p
You work in software engineering -- do you think a stupid person could be
trained to be a really good programmer? Again, I very much doubt it ... though
they could be (and increasingly are ;-p) trained to do routine programming
tasks.
Inevitably, in either of these cases, the person will encounter some
situation not directly covered in their training, and will need to
intelligently analogize to their experience, and will fail at this because they
are not very intelligent...
-- Ben G
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Mark Waser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Funny, Ben.
So . . . . could you clearly state why science can't be done by anyone
willing to simply follow the recipe?
Is it really anything other than the fact that they are stopped by their
unconscious beliefs and biases? If so, what?
Instead of a snide comment, defend your opinion with facts, explanations,
and examples of what it really is.
I can give you all sorts of examples where someone is capable of doing
something "by the numbers" until they are told that they can't.
What do you believe is so difficult about science other than overcoming the
sub/unconscious?
Your statement is obviously spoken by someone who has lectured as opposed
to taught.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Goertzel
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: AW: AW: [agi] Re: Defining AGI
>>>
*Any* human who can understand language beyond a certain point (say,
that of
a slightly sub-average human IQ) can easily be taught to be a good
scientist
if they are willing to play along. Science is a rote process that can
be
learned and executed by anyone -- as long as their beliefs and biases
don't
get in the way.
<<
This is obviously spoken by someone who has never been a professional
teacher ;-p
ben g
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription
--
Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first
overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription
-------------------------------------------
agi
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now
RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/
Modify Your Subscription:
https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34
Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
