Except that humans do learn chess through interactive experiences involving language, gesture and emotional sharing, not just through books ...
Which is not to say that a computer program would *need* to learn chess in a humanlike way, of course... But, the social aspect of human chess-learning is almost surely NOT irrelevant to how humans learn, or think about, chess... We think about chess moves in terms of categories like humor, aggression, fear and sneakiness ... which are human social categories ... and also in terms of metaphors like flow, which are based in our physical embodiment Deep Blue of course does it differently ... and a nonhumanlike AGI might do it very differently than either humans or Deep Blue... ben g On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 1:19 AM, Dr. Matthias Heger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I do not think that it is essential for the quality of my chess who had > taught me to play chess. > I could have learned the rules from a book alone. > Of course these rules are written in a language. But this is not important > for the quality of my chess. > > If a system is in state x then it is not essential for the future how x was > generated. > Thus a programmer can hardcode the rules of chess in his AGI and then, > concerning chess the AGI would be in the same state as if someone teaches > the AGI the chess rules via language. > > The social aspect of learning chess is of no relevance. > > -Matthias > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Trent Waddington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Vladimir Nesov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Current AIs learn chess without engaging in social activities ;-). > > And chess might be a good drosophila for AI, if it's treated as such ( > > http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/chess.html ). > > This was uncalled for. > > No, they don't. > > How to evaluate the board position is programmed into them. How to > prune the search space is programmed into them. > > Current chess playing programs don't learn how to play chess at all. > > I learnt to play chess.. initially from my Dad, subsequently from my > peers, and with some many hours of study of the literature. > > Dr. Matthias Heger wrote: > >If you give the system the rules of chess then it has all which is > necessary > >to know to become a good chess player. > >It may play against itself or against a common chess program or against > >humans. > > Giving it the rules is a social activity.. playing against it is a > social activity. > > If *you* could learn to play chess from a list of rules written in a > language you don't understand (cause if you understand it, then that > too is a social activity) then I wouldn't consider you "intelligent", > I'd consider you a freakin' genius who has achieved the impossible. > > As I said, this is a nonsensical suggestion. Chess is a *game* and > either game playing algorithms are hard coded to play well or you need > to teach them to play well. *Maybe* you could teach a child how to > play chess by slapping them whenever they make an incorrect move but > this would just be cruel. Language is how we convey to beginners the > rules and the common tactics and strategies of the game. > > Trent > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -- Robert Heinlein ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
