Ben, On 11/5/08, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> As I explained, I am on fence here. In physics, a theoretical >> physicist clearly identifies the unproven assumptions, and experimental >> physicists get right onto testing those assumptions. >> > > This isn't really true though. For instance string theory is controversial > because no one really knows how to use it to make experimental predictions > about anything currently measurable... >
In part this very test is behind the Billions of dollars (don't you wish that we had that kind of money) being spent on the new CERN accelerator. They hope and sort of expect to see some evidence when the thing gets up to full power. > > >> Further, they all work in the same Physics Building on the University, >> talk things over with each over in the coffee room, etc. It is EXTREMELY >> rare for someone like Einstein to figure something important out in a vacuum >> (no pun intended). >> > > Hmmm... the Institute for Advanced Study has no lab, for instance ... > I once visited Seppo Sari, a PhD physicist friend who was doing work there. I saw with my own eyes his, the world's first variable-frequency tunable laser. Seppo went on to bigger things, including working on the Star Wars free electron laser at Boeing (hint, they are NOT free at all, but are rather expensive), Stealth paint, etc. There were many other such experiments in the basement there - a VERY impressive place to visit. Anyway, experimental physics is very much alive and well there - you just have to go into the basement to see it. They also have offices at other experimental facilities, including CERN mentioned above. > >> In summary, I completely agree that we need theoretical people. However, >> once a theory is on the table you simply can't stop there. If you know >> something/anything new about aging, there is probably someone out there >> whose life you could easily save (at least for a few years) with that >> knowledge. If no such person exists, then your "knowledge" is probably >> situated within some useless paradigm. In short, at least with longevity, >> there is simply no excuse for not trying things out, as there is certainly >> no shortage of experimental subjects. >> > > To me that's like saying: "if you know something/anything new about energy, > there is probably some way you can make a better power plant with that > knowledge." > Probably, though not always true. Certainly, early discoveries quickly led to our present energy-based society, and Tesla's attempts to make broadcast energy work quickly put that concept out of our collective misery. But science doesn't work that way.... It can be a long path from > theoretical understanding to practical application, involving many people... > Sometime though not always true. In any case, it doesn't do much good to build a grand theory based on erroneous models and observations, which is where this discussion started. Right now I am able to do many of the very same things, affecting the very same mechanisms, that Aubrey hopes to be able to do in coming decades with esoteric technology that no one has any idea how to do. The fact that I do this with SUCH pedestrian methods seems to be exasperating to everyone. Mapping this into your space, this is akin to my statements: 1. That manually applying Reverse Reductio ad Absurdum methods to intractable disputes will meet or exceed anything that any future AGI might accomplish, or 2. That trivial AI like Dr. Eliza can solve difficult problems that, for many subtle reasons (what difficulty tells us about problem structure, etc.), are at the very outer reaches of the hopes for AGIs. My point here is NOT that AGIs are a waste of time and electricity, but rather that some people (I don't think you are one of them) are targeting the wrong applications. Anyway this is getting way off-topic for the AGI list.. > Note the subject line - OT for Off Topic, so that people who wish to stay on topic can simply skip over these postings. I suspect that good netiquette will solve most/all of the prior complaints about postings here, and who better to start this than me?! I also suspect that many of the members here are NOT reading this thread because it has OT on it. I'm really looking forward to meeting you at Convergence08. I'd gladly trade a dinner for a "cooks tour" of Novamente, et al. Perhaps others here would like to be in on this. Steve Richfield ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
