On 8/9/2021 4:45 AM, ais523 via agora-business wrote: > On Mon, 2021-08-09 at 13:31 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business > wrote: >> Your attempt to simultaneously Flip, failed; because: CFJ 2086 (called 15 >> Jul 2008): Message-based actions are always taken in some order, never >> precisely simultaneously, possibly unless otherwise stated. >> >> I Judge FALSE. > > I intend, with 2 support, to group-file a Motion to Reconsider this; > the statements that this makes about the judgement of CFJ 2086 are not > correct. > > CFJ 2086 found that game custom was that, if there are no other cues > about timing within the message, multiple actions taken in the same > message happen in the order in which they are written; and that the > rules are silent on the issue, so game custom is used as a rule 217 > tiebreak. (It didn't mention the other rule 217 tests, but I think > those also point towards an "actions happen in sequence unless > otherwise stated" viewpoint; in addition to being game custom, this is > clearly in the best interests of the game, and is also supported by > common sense.) > > In this case, though, there are other cues about timing in the message > (it explicitly states it's trying to do two things simultaneously), so > the precedent of CFJ 2086 doesn't apply (both because it explicitly > stated it doesn't apply in this case, and because the reasoning that it > used doesn't hold up in the situation where the message outright says > otherwise). >
I support. In addition to ais523's arguments, Rule 478/23 (in effect at the time of CFJ 2086), didn't contain the "unless otherwise stated" sentence. That legislatively-inserted text (by P6785, adopted August 2011) is a key point in the caller's arguments for the current cfj. That text makes CFJ 2086 out-of-date since the rule is no longer silent and the text of the rule now applies. Evidence: >From Assessor's voting report (Aug 22 14:57:56 UTC 2010): https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2010-August/008019.html }{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{ Proposal 6785 (Purple, AI=3.0, Interest=0) by coppro Attorney Adjustment Amend Rule 478 (Fora) by replacing A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be public. A person "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message. Where the rules define an action that CAN be performed "by announcement", a person performs that action by unambiguously and clearly specifying the action and announcing that e performs it. Any action performed by sending a message is performed at the time date-stamped on that message. with A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public message is considered a public message in its own right. A person "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message,. Where the rules define an action that CAN be performed "by announcement", a person performs that action by unambiguously and clearly specifying the action and announcing that e performs it. Any action performed by sending a message is performed at the time date-stamped on that message. Actions in messages (including sub-messages) are performed in the order they appear in the message, unless otherwise specified. }{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{
