Okay, so tk is being dropped, I guess that billiob phil and my work with tkhtml will be used for amsn1 then?
Tom On 7/17/06, Harry Vennik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks Youness for explaining the idea. It was absolutely not true that Tcl/Tk > would be dropped completely. Much more will be in C than currently in aMSN2, > but still most of the logic will be in Tcl, only Tk will be dropped! And the > logic will be implemented as a kind of 'core plugins'. (Phil, I must admit, > the way I named those is not right, in the document is seems like those will > be optional, but that is not what I meant. Needs to change in the next > version.) Talking about languages, I will also clarify why I mentioned > JavaScript. We will probably need it to implement some basic GUI behavior and > to link the XUL-based GUI with the C code behind, but my intend is to keep > the use of JavaScript as minimal as possible, and not use it al all if > possible. In any case, no serious piece of logic will be implemented in > JavaScript. > > About glib and C++... I am more of a C++ hater than a glib lover. In my > opinion C++ should never have been created. Many people seem to like it, but > I don't see why. The way the OO principles are implemented in C++ is not > usable for me (I learned about OO with VisualBasic and Java in the first > place, then glib is close than C++, even though you need to code every thing > yourself in glib, and C++ will do some for you, the principles followed by > glib do match those of real OO as in Java better than C++ does). In fact > Objective-C is still the best one around, but it is only supported well on > Mac, support on Linux is limited, and Objective-C on Windows might not be > possible at all. So for that reason it would not be a good choice for us. > > About my document missing much information... that is completely true. We'll > need to develop that document. I put it in the Wiki too, and I will update it > there regularly to reflect things discussed here, and once it clearly takes > some direction, I will issue a new draft that contains the changes, and maybe > new ideas emerging from that. > > About the Wiki page listing the modules and who will work on it, it is there > indeed, but needs change. The final list of modules is different, and people > will probably shuffle around a bit. For example I am at 'Telepathy to GUI > Layer', but moved to XML2GUI in the meantime, finally dropping most of that > in favor of an existing solution, but cannot go back, because there will > probably not exactly be any 'Telepathy to GUI Layer'. > > What we'll probably have: > - The GUI in XUL > - D-BUS for Tcl > - libamsn2_ui > - libamsn2_tcl > - libmsn > - The 'core plugins' that will glue everything together. > > In the beginning anyone only able to code TCL can stay on aMSN1. They can join > aMSN2 later, when some non-TCL parts they will need get near the alpha > status. (Don't say this is unfair. aMSN 1.0 needs to get out too, and TCL > coding for aMSN2 simply cannot be done in the first stage.) > > Harry > > Op maandag 17 juli 2006 01:00, schreef Youness Alaoui: > > ok... I think we'd better discuss this on IRC, it will be a lot easier.. > > unfortunately, as I said already many times I can't do much with my PC > > right now... > > I think Phil is wrong about glib.. I do understand that OO emulation is > > not as good as real OO with C++ but problem with C++ is as you know, the > > libstdc++ ABI changing every couple of weeks... so it's hard to package > > something... > > if it's not for that, I would say C++ all the way!!! > > C is also prefered to C++ because of the linux commuity emotions where > > everything everywhere is C and we don't want to switch to something else > > (tell someone to compile a java version of the linux kernel, he'll > > laugh/spit at you...) > > about tcl/tk, we didn't say we'll drop it, on the contrary, it will be > > our base... you need to see amsn2 as a 3 module project > > the protocol - the logic - the graphics > > the protocol will be farsight+telepathy+libmsn > > the graphics will be XML files, XUL, etc... > > the logic will be Tcl... > > the logic will take care of saying "ohh, the protocol said I have a new > > contact in my allow list, ok, then update the allow list data and do > > whatever has to be done for that event"... > > we'll also store in Tcl snit objects the different data types, the > > contact list, the users, the groups, etc... > > I don't know how XULRunner works but I think I saw a 'javascript' word > > in your doc... what's that ? are you serious about using damn JS in > > amsn2 ? I would say definitely NO! use Tcl if any scripting is required! > > > > Didn't we have a page on the wiki that described all modules and which > > team member wanted to work on which module? it is very abstracted, > > Harry's document aims to go more technical, but I think it lacks many > > info... remember the mail I sent with details about the snit objects to > > use ? the interactoin ? the directory structures, etc... ? read it and > > use it... we need to join every mail on the subject. > > Tcl should be the core of amsn2, this is what amsn2 is really about!!! > > it's not because someone uses libmsn with telepathy to create his own > > client that it's the same as amsn2.. the protocol is one thing and has > > nothing to do with the client... the GUI is the same, it is our front > > end, but a nice button is nothing if you click on it and nothing > > happens... those events will be Tcl, so the aMSN spirit is not dead and > > noone has to leave the team! > > > > KKRT > > > > On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 11:41:41PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I agree as regards dropping tcl/tk - I cant program in anything else > > > except PHP lol so i wouldnt be able to contribute if we switched langs > > > (sorry Harry havent read the doc yet, just going on what Phil said, > > > will read later) > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > On 7/16/06, Philippe Valembois - Phil > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Ouch ! > > > > Hi, > > > > between my so beautiful week end and my first day of work tomorrow, I > > > > take the time to read mails and read yours too ;) > > > > And the first point where I disagree is : > > > > You want to drop Tcl/Tk ! > > > > And it's a huge point ! Because if you drop it you will have many > > > > devels who will leave the project because they don't know C or C++... > > > > Tcl/Tk would be the only common point between aMSN and aMSN2 so if you > > > > remove it why call it aMSN2 ? (not the same devels, not the same > > > > languages, no incompatibility ) The only common point I can find is the > > > > aim to have the better MSN client the Earth will ever have ! > > > > KaKaRoTo you said I didn't created the amsn2 tree... But if I created > > > > it I would have put in it our work with TkHtml... But where will be > > > > TkHtml in this design ? It will be a GUI in TCL... But what said Harry > > > > ? "Usage of Tk for plugin UI components will however be strongly > > > > discouraged." so it will be a sort of "Do you I say but not what I do" > > > > very strange... > > > > In addition, you seem to be very tied with GLib and don't want to use > > > > C++... Why ? Why use some emulation of C++ in C ? If you want to use > > > > classes so we should use C++... Else I could advise you to code our > > > > classes in assembly :p Well, in fact, I totally disagree with this > > > > design but maybe I am the black sheep... Even if I know C and bases of > > > > C++, I couldn't let all non C/C++ devels leave the team... > > > > Please everybody say if I am wrong or not ? Maybe I have too much > > > > feelings... Phil > > > > P.S. Harry, it's not that your design is bad (maybe on Glib thing it is > > > > bad :p) but I think it hasn't any relation with the aMSN that everybody > > > > know... > > > > > > > > Le Sunday 16 July 2006 20:38, Harry Vennik a ?crit: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > Last months I have done a lot of thinking about aMSN2. Especially > > > > > about the GUI part of it. I don't know if everyone followed the > > > > > XML2GUI discussion. Anyway, I changed my mind on that subject. I was > > > > > convinced that, although XML2GUI solutions did already exist, those > > > > > would not fit our needs well enough, so I started off designing a new > > > > > solution, that would work for us, and probably a lot of others. But > > > > > still I did not feel comfortable with that. It was just too much a > > > > > matter of reinventing the wheel, and somehow I could not really > > > > > believe that none of the existing solutions would fit. Especially XUL > > > > > seemed so close, that I decided to go back one step, and > > > > > reinvestigate the possibilities, and try to find out what I missed > > > > > the first time. Eventually I found the answer, and chose Mozilla's > > > > > XULRunner. > > > > > > > > > > After that, I started off writing the attached document, to specify: > > > > > - What the aMSN2 project is meant to be > > > > > - The aims of aMSN2 > > > > > - The very basics of the technical structure of aMSN2 > > > > > > > > > > Please read it all, and send your comments on this thread! > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >-- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > > > security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make > > > > your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based > > > > on Apache Geronimo > > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=12164 > > > >2 _______________________________________________ > > > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > > easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > > Geronimo > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Amsn-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Amsn-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel
