Hi Per, I have been working on Swedish-Icelandic for a while now and I hope to have it online some time soon.
I used the monolingual dictionary from sv-da and have expanded it - it might be useful for you. I also plan to start work on a Swedish constraint grammar. I doubt that I will have time to do a lot, but it is something to keep in mind. Are you considering working on Swedish-Norwegian instead? I worked on Bulgarian-Macedonian before (Bulgarian is my mother tongue and Macedonian is to Bulgarian to a large extent what Norwegian is to Swedish) and from my experience I can advise you to really take time to read some grammar books on Norwegian. It is especially helpful for writing transfer rules, but it will also help you detect patterns of lexical similarities/differences between Swedish and Norwegian. Good luck, Tihomir On 4.4.2012, at 16:35, Per Tunedal wrote: > Hi, > then I hope for some development on point # 2. I don't like redoing a > job someone else has done already. > > Point # 3: > > I realise the @, / or # symbols are codes for different kinds of errors. > Such info is valuable as you can concentrate your work on those entries > after a test-drive with some representative texts. Before entering > entirely new words in the dictionaries. > > I have noticed that it is possible to run Apertium in different modes, > one "debug" mode showing codes for missing entries etc. and one "user" > mode suppressing such codes. It would be interesting to let real users > test a new pair early, letting them chose the mode of operation. And > reporting blatant errors. That would be encouraging for the developer. > > Further: > > 4. The similarity of Swedish and Norwegian leads me to believe that the > transfer rules could be somewhat similar for the two languages, although > Swedish and Danish are considered more similar. (All the same, a Swede > has sometimes some difficulties when speaking with a Dane, as the Danish > pronunciation appears "mushy" to a Swede. Danes often switch to > "Scandinavian" to make themselves understood. But in writing, Swedish > and Danish are very similar.) > > I suppose some kind of cooperation would be beneficial if I start to > work on the pair SE - EN. Maybe splitting up the list of words needing > transfer rules between us. Maybe I can reuse your bilingual dictionary > (translating Norwegian to Swedish) and you can reuse entries I add to > mine (translating Swedish to Norwegian). > > I might as well cooperate with the developers of the DA - EN pair, by > the same reasons. > > Maybe it would be easier to start with the SE - NO pair, building on the > SE - DA? There are great similarities between the Norwegian bokmål > (written language variant) and Danish. But I haven't any real knowledge > of neither Danish, nor of Norwegian :-( > > 5. English is quite distant from Swedish and Norwegian. Would it be more > fruitful to use Matxin instead of Apertium? What's the difference? > > Yours, > Per Tunedal > > PS As a Swede, I believe I understand Norwegian. In reality the > similarity is sometimes deceiving and some words are completely > different. Anyhow, Swedes and Norwegians usually understand each-other. > I found your translation excellent. My interpretation of the Norwegian > word "bekkekanter" is "banks of small streams of water/brooks", as I > believe the Norwegian word "bekk" is the equivalent of the Swedish > "bäck". BTW The Norwegian intonation in spoken language gives the > impression to a Swede that the speaker is very happy. This makes a > somewhat comical impression when a Norwegian is communicating bad news. > All the same, I get along perfectly well with my Norwegian neighbours. > > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012, at 09:16, Francis Tyers wrote: >> El dc 04 de 04 de 2012 a les 08:53 +0200, en/na Per Tunedal va escriure: >>> Hi, >>> I have just rapidly scanned through the documentation and have some very >>> basic questions about building a new language pair: >> >> I'll give some very brief answers below. >> >>> 1. Can I reuse the already developed monolingual dictionaries for the >>> two languages? >> >> Yes >> >>> 2. Is someone maintaining an updated version (i.e. joining all >>> additions) of the most complete monolingual dictionary for each >>> language? >> >> No. This is something we would like to do, there is a GSOC idea for it: >> >> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Ideas_for_Google_Summer_of_Code/Monolingual_and_bilingual_data_decoupling >> >>> 3. Can the two monolingual dictionaries for a new language pair have >>> different length (i.e. contain a different number of words) - relative >>> each other and relative the bilingual dictionary? >> >> Not currently. This would cause errors in the translation. Here is an >> example translation from Nursery. >> >> Original: >> >> Planten finnes naturlig i Lilleasia og i deler av Midtøsten (Iran, >> Irak). Den står oppført på norsk svarteliste som uønsket og er utbredt >> langs veikanter, bekkekanter, og bakgårder i Nord-Norge, fra Finnmark og >> sørover til Nord-Trøndelag, men den er også funnet i Sør-Norge, særlig i >> Osloområdet. finns også i Østfold og Vestfold. >> >> MT output from no-en in nursery: >> >> Plant #be natural #in #Asia Minor and #in parts #of #Middle East (Iran, >> Iraq). He stands staged on Norwegian #blacklist as undesirable and are >> expanded #along #roadside, *bekkekanter, and @bakgård #in #Northern >> Norway, from Finnmark and @sørover #to #Nord-Trøndelag, but he is also >> found #in #South Norway, especially #in *Osloområdet. Finn's also #in >> #Østfold and #Vestfold. >> >> My "translation" (I don't know Norwegian): >> >> The plant is found naturally in Asia Minor and in parts of the Middle >> East (Iran, Iraq). It is currently on the Norwegian blacklist as >> undesirable and is alongside roadsides, _?_ and back gardens in Northern >> Norway, from Finnmark southwards to Nord-Trøndelag, but it is also found >> in South Norway, especially in Osloområdet. It is also found in Østfold >> and Vestfold. >> >> This pair has basically been put together by myself and Unhammer in a >> few days, hence the lack of transfer rules (#be) and bilingual >> dictionary errors (@sørover). >> >>> In case of a positive answer to my questions: >>> >>> Does the job of creating a new language pair basically consist of "just" >>> creating a bilingual dictionary? In that case it would be easy to start >>> with some frequent words and let it grow over time. >> >> In many cases it consists of "just" creating a bilingual dictionary, the >> transfer rules, and performing the "vocabulary test"[1] This can take >> between 10 days and three months. >> >> Fran >> >> 1. http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Testvoc >> >>> Yours, >>> Per Tunedal >>> >>> PS Why is the pair sv-en presented as in "nursery" if there is neither >>> any files left, nor any work going on? >> >> No idea, it should probably be in incubator. It was probably created >> along with the Luxembourg Workshop because we had to make skeletons for >> all language pairs in the matrix. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to >> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second >> resolution app monitoring today. Free. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Apertium-stuff mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to > monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second > resolution app monitoring today. Free. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev _______________________________________________ Apertium-stuff mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
