> On Sep 2, 2021, at 04:51 , John Curran <jcur...@arin.net> wrote: > > Folks - > > We try to base policy changes in the ARIN region on a clear problem > statement. With respect to updates of existing number resources in the > registry, the question to be asked is: > > – What information (contacts, utilization) do I need updated on an ongoing > basis from others (those with number resources in the ARIN registry) so that > I can continue to reliably operate my part of the Internet?
Are you now in a position to tell the community which questions they should be asking on a particular topic? I thought we got to choose those for ourselves. I’m not saying this is a bad place to start, but calling it “the question to be asked” seems a bit beyond your scope. > One could easily imagine an entire host of information update requirements to > be put on those holding number resources, but it is also worth remembering > that the Internet number registry system is an instantiation of a mutual > cooperation model of the Internet operator community, and as such one must > then qualify any requirements as follows: > > – What level of cooperation in providing and updating information about my > number resources am I willing to commit to (potentially in perpetuity) with > the recognition that such cooperation would become required to continue to > participate in the registry and continue to hold those rights? I agree that this would be good practice and certainly facilitate better policy decisions, but I’m not convinced you are in a position to individually tell the community what to do here. > These are not particularly complicated questions, but achieving a shared > sense in the community about what is needed here (and thus a statement of the > problem with current policy) is a definitely a non-trivial activity. I > leave it to those on this list to further consider the matter. Personally, I think that in the ARIN region, the status quo is perfectly fine for now. Owen > > Thanks! > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 6:25 PM, Martin Hannigan <hanni...@gmail.com >> <mailto:hanni...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> Utilization after implementation and continued use is not likely to result >> in any substantial change of need. Addresses are issued based on an initial >> plan; the word plan is used six times in the NRPM and maps to utilization >> afterwards in 4.3.3. Whether it starts its utilization life on a server and >> grows up to move on to a router seems irrelevant. Based on my interpretation >> (and real world experience)in the NRPM that's defensible. Utilization is a >> rate of use, not actual use and whether it is on a server today and a router >> tomorrow? Irrelevant in that optic. >> >> YMMV >> >> -M< >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 5:39 PM Mike Burns <m...@iptrading.com >> <mailto:m...@iptrading.com>> wrote: >> HI Chris and David, >> >> I think reclaiming resources for fraud of any kind is perfectly reasonable. >> I do not see any need for reporting to ARIN any change of utilization. >> Unlike the AFRINIC RSA (and the LACNIC RSA) the ARIN RSA doesn't put >> resources at risk for utilization, whether that's a change of utilization or >> lack of utilization. >> This is how it should be in a registry that allows transfers, otherwise >> sellers wouldn't risk coming to ARIN to book a transfer if ARIN could revoke >> the addresses for utilization reasons. >> >> (I think this language in the RSA is one reason for LACNIC's anemic transfer >> market. On the other hand it may prove useful to AFRINIC in this peculiar >> and likely unique situation.) >> >> I think we need a clear leasing policy in ARIN, one that allows leased >> addresses to be used as justification if those addresses are leased out with >> valid recorded assignments (SWIPS). >> Leasing has to be recognized as a valid distribution channel for IPv4 >> addresses and policy must not stand in the way of that channel evolving >> naturally along with the market. >> This AFRINIC situation involves leasing, and everywhere leasing is happening >> in a policy void. That's asking for problems. >> >> I think we are in the realm of "hard cases make bad law" if we try to >> generalize from the situation in AFRINIC, which really can't be repeated. >> There is no sense in trying to protect against a repeat occurence through a >> knee-jerk reaction that leads to useless prophylactic policy clutter. >> I suppose it bears repeating though, fraud at any point merits revocation. >> >> >> Regards, >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> ---- On Wed, 01 Sep 2021 16:35:19 -0400 Chris Woodfield <ch...@semihuman.com >> <mailto:ch...@semihuman.com>> wrote ---- >> >> David - >> >> In addition to the RSA language John cited, Section 12 of the NRPM gives >> ARIN the right to review an organization’s resource usage at any time for >> continued compliance with community-driven policy. I suspect that these >> reviews are not common, however. What’s more common, in my view, is an >> organization’s request for additional resources, which must come with >> justification that currently-held resources are being used in compliance >> with policy. I do not believe that these are checked against the original >> requests for consistency, however. >> >> I’d be curious if the clause below can be interpreted as giving >> organizations a duty to report *any* substantial changes in an >> organization’s allocation plans if they diverge from the justification filed >> at the time of the request, or only when such changes would have the effect >> of putting the organization out of compliance with current policy. I can see >> the former interpretation being rather troublesome for a large number of >> organizations, given how often business plans and environments can change >> over time, as well as adding quite a bit of (IMO unnecessary) overhead to IP >> allocation managers. >> >> That said, I can see ARIN being quite justified in reclaiming resources if >> the justification documentation filed with the request had no bearing to the >> org’s actual plans. I suspect that to be the unspoken subtext of the current >> controversy, and I absolutely believe that ARIN would and should act >> similarly in such a scenario (which, in the past, it has). >> >> Regards,, >> >> -Chris >> >> On Sep 1, 2021, at 1:21 PM, John Curran <jcur...@arin.net >> <mailto:jcur...@arin.net>> wrote: >> >> David - >> >> Excellent question. The most important item is for the community to >> determine its policy goals in this area, and then based on such what >> requirements/duties belong in policy language in Number Resource Policy >> Manual (NRPM.) >> >> The ARIN RSA places an explicit duty of “Information and Cooperation” on >> number resource holders (see below) that can be used to enforce >> community-developed policy in this area, but the communities thoughts on the >> appropriate policy really should drive the discussion – >> 2.(c) Information and Cooperation. Holder has completed an application >> provided by ARIN for one or more Services (the “Application”). Holder must >> (i) promptly notify ARIN if any information provided in the Application >> changes during the term of this Agreement, and (ii) make reasonable efforts >> to promptly, accurately, and completely provide any information or >> cooperation required pursuant to the Service Terms or in response to any >> inquiry or request made to Holder by ARIN during the term of this Agreement. >> In addition, Holder shall promptly provide ARIN with complete and accurate >> information, and cooperation as required by any Service Terms or that ARIN >> requests in connection with ARIN’s provision of any of the Services to >> Holder. If Holder does not provide ARIN with such information or cooperation >> that ARIN requests, ARIN may take such failure into account in evaluating >> Holder’s subsequent requests for transfer, allocation or assignment of >> additional number resources, or requests for changes to any Services. >> >> Note that material breach of Section 2(c) is one of the events that provides >> ARIN clear right of termination for the RSA and subsequent revocation of the >> number resources – so let’s be extra careful when considering any >> reporting/information duties for placement into NRPM. >> >> Thanks! >> /John >> >> >> John Curran >> President and CEO >> American Registry for Internet Numbers >> >> >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 3:47 PM, David Farmer <far...@umn.edu >> <mailto:far...@umn.edu>> wrote: >> >> >> I changed the subject line, as this isn't directly related to the dispute >> between AFRINIC and CI, but more some questions arising from it specifically >> related to the ARIN registered resources. >> ---- >> >> So, do ARIN resource holders have a duty to report changes in their use of >> resources? If they do, where does that duty come from in policy or contract >> language? And, what are the relevant changes that need to be reported? >> >> In my review of these questions; >> >> In the RSA I see where holders are granted, "The right to use the Included >> Number Resources within the ARIN database" (RSA section 2.b bullet 2). >> However, I don't see any limitation to that use, such as "originally >> justified" or any obligation to report a change in such use. >> >> In policy, "An end-user is an organization receiving assignments of IP >> addresses exclusively for use in its operational networks." (NRPM 2.6), with >> an exception for incidental or transient use (last paragraph, section 2.5). >> >> Maybe to align end-user requirements with the new Registration Services >> Agreement we should change that so end-users have to report any use, other >> than incidental or transient use, outside their organization. >> >> And ISP's have requirements to report the use by their customers that exceed >> certain levels (NRPM sections 4.2.3.7 and 6.5.5). >> >> So, other than the ISP reporting requirements, I don't see direct reporting >> obligations for change in use. Further, I don't see any guidance to what >> might be a material change in use that is in need of reporting, as I'm sure >> we don't want ARIN Staff tied up with reports of all possible changes, most >> of which are probably irrelevant. >> >> Are there reporting requirements I'm missing? Maybe implied or indirect >> requirement? >> >> Should something be added to ARIN's policies explicitly stating requirements >> for reporting a change in the use of resources? >> >> Thanks >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net >> <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >> Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any >> issues. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net >> <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >> Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any >> issues. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net >> <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >> Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any >> issues. >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net >> <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >> Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues. > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
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