> On Oct 21, 2021, at 20:05 , David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net> > wrote: > > The problem I have with that is it strongly implies IPv6 isn’t ever > transferable, even though it is through section 8.2.
If IPv6 becomes more generally transferrable, then section 2 can be updated along side the other policy changes required. In terms of 8.2, IPv6 transferability under 8.2 is exceptional compared to other transfers, so I think it’s OK to note that exception as part of the language update in 8.2 > > A few thoughts; > > 1. Adding that resource types are considered “separately and independently”, > should eliminate the need to use the awkward “and/or” construction, and we > should be able to simply use “IPv4 addresses or ASNs” without confusion > following that statement. I’d prefer to do this is section 8.1 instead of > section 2. So it isn’t disconnected from section 8 where it is important to > understand. Personally, I don’t see a significant difference between inclusive or (and/or) and phrasing elsewhere that clarifies that the or is inclusive followed by use of the normally exclusive or. I do think that the global definition in section 2 for “transferable resources” (or if you have a better choice of terms, go for it, but some term that identifies IPv4 + ASNs and not IPv6 currently). I still like making the clarification that each resource type is considered separately for each transfer. > 2. Rather than defining “transferable resources” in section 2, how about > saying “only IPv4 addresses or ASNs are transferable, except where explicitly > noted otherwise,” again in section 8.1, for similar reason as above. Then add > “including IPv6” in the heading to section 8.2, making it clear that IPv6 is > included for section 8.2 transfers, and only section 8.2. How about section 2 defining “Transferable resources" as “IPv4 addresses and ASNs, except where specifically noted otherwise” and then proceeding apace? > 3. In sections 8.3 and 8.4, either just simply say “number resources”, with > the above clearly scoping that to IPv4 addresses or ASNs. Or, say “ IPv4 > addresses or ASNs”, without the awkward “and/or” construction. I prefer using > just “number resources”, as I think it is simpler and cleaner. I don’t find and/or any more awkward than or, so I’m not convinced that’s really an issue. I don’t like just using “number resources” in a place where we don’t intend IPv6 because it’s not the plain language meaning of the term. > 4. Where a clause only applies to “IPv4 addresses”, such as for block sizing, > and the wait list, make sure they are explicitly scoped to IPv4. I think that’s already generally the case. Owen > > Thanks. > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 21:06 Chris Woodfield <ch...@semihuman.com > <mailto:ch...@semihuman.com>> wrote: > I think Joe’s got a good suggestion that I would support - define > “transferable number resources” as IPv4 addresses and ASNs in Section 2, and > go from there. > > -C > >> On Oct 21, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Martin Hannigan <hanni...@gmail.com >> <mailto:hanni...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 14:53 Chris Woodfield <ch...@semihuman.com >> <mailto:ch...@semihuman.com>> wrote: >> I support this edit, for same reasons others have mentioned. >> >> If I’m recalling yesterday’s presentation correctly, it was ARIN Staff and >> Legal, not the AC, that determined that this language could not be >> implemented an editorial change, so that’s not up for debate here. >> >> One possible adjustment that I’d like to suggest is that the term “IPv4 >> and/or ASN resources” seems a bit awkward, given how many times it appears >> in the section. Perhaps we could add a new section that incorporates David’s >> suggested language, but also handles the clarification of the definition of >> number resources in a single place, scoped to Section 8. >> >> So, a new Section 8.1.1, which I’d propose would be named “Definitions”, >> could read as follows: >> >> >> All references to “number resources" in this section, unless stated >> otherwise, refer to IPv4 addresses and/or ASN resources. >> >> When number resources of multiple types, including IPv6 resources, are >> transferred, each resource type is considered separately and independently, >> both for any conditions on their transferability and the application of any >> restrictions following a transfer. >> >> >> Following this, the other edits to Section 8 in the proposal can simply be >> changed to “number resources” to suit. >> >> Opinions? >> >> -C >> >> We’d be better off using defined terms. Easier to construct, but end up >> being document global. >> >> Warm regards, >> >> -M< >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Martin Hannigan <hanni...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:hanni...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I agree with Owen re: the editorial nature of the changes. However, I >>> support it moving forward. I don't support the Farmer suggestion. That is >>> possibly a material change that should undergo the rigors of "the process" >>> on its own. >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> >>> -M< >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 11:33 AM Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML >>> <arin-ppml@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> wrote: >>> I support this amendment. >>> >>> Owen >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 12:45 , David Farmer via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net >>>> <mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I support this proposal as currently written. >>>> >>>> However, regarding Kevin Blumberg's comment at the ARIN 48 discussion of >>>> this policy earlier today; How about adding a paragraph like the following >>>> to section 8.1, Principles; >>>> >>>> When number resources of multiple types, IPv4, IPv6, and/or ASNs, are >>>> transferred, each resource type is considered separately and >>>> independently, both for any conditions on their transferability and the >>>> application of any restrictions following a transfer. >>>> >>>> Something like this added to Section 8.1, Principles, along with the >>>> already proposed changes should eliminate any possibility of confusion in >>>> this regard. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 7:52 AM ARIN <i...@arin.net >>>> <mailto:i...@arin.net>> wrote: >>>> On 19 August 2021, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-299: >>>> Clarifications to Sections 8.3, 8.4 and 8.5.6" as a Draft Policy. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2021-4 is below and can be found at: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2021_4/ >>>> <https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2021_4/> >>>> >>>> >>>> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will >>>> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft >>>> policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated >>>> in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles >>>> are: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration >>>> >>>> * Technically Sound >>>> >>>> * Supported by the Community >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The PDP can be found at: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/ >>>> <https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/> >>>> >>>> >>>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at: >>>> >>>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/ >>>> <https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sean Hopkins >>>> >>>> Senior Policy Analyst >>>> >>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2021-4: Clarifications to Sections 8.3, 8.4 and 8.5.6 >>>> >>>> >>>> Problem Statement: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The current language in Sections 8.3 and 8.4 is not clear regarding >>>> ASN-only transactions as well as the term “number resources”. The current >>>> language in Section 8.5.7 is not clear with regard to additional IPv4 >>>> space. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Policy statement: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In Section 8.3: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Replace >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “In addition to transfers under section 8.2, IPv4 numbers resources and >>>> ASNs may be transferred according to the following conditions.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> with >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “In addition to transfers under section 8.2, IPv4 address and/or ASN >>>> resources may be transferred according to the following conditions.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Replace >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “The source entity must be the current registered holder of the IPv4 >>>> address resources, and not be involved in any dispute as to the status of >>>> those resources.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> with >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “The source entity must be the current registered holder of the IPv4 >>>> address and/or ASN resources, and not be involved in any dispute as to the >>>> status of those resources.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In Section 8.4: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Replace >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “Inter-regional transfers of IPv4 number resources and ASNs may take place >>>> only via RIRs who agree to the transfer and share reciprocal, compatible >>>> needs-based policies.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> with >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “Inter-regional transfers of IPv4 addresses and/or ASN resources may take >>>> place only via RIRs who agree to the transfer and share reciprocal, >>>> compatible needs-based policies.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Replace >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “The source entity must be the current rights holder of the IPv4 address >>>> resources recognized by the RIR responsible for the resources, and not be >>>> involved in any dispute as to the status of those resources.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> with >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “The source entity must be the current rights holder of the IPv4 address >>>> and/or ASN resources recognized by the RIR responsible for the resources, >>>> and not be involved in any dispute as to the status of those resources.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In Section 8.5.6: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Replace >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “Organizations with direct assignments or allocations from ARIN must have >>>> efficiently utilized at least 50% of their cumulative IPv4 address blocks >>>> in order to receive additional space. This includes all space reassigned >>>> to their customers.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> with >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> “Organizations with direct assignments or allocations from ARIN must have >>>> efficiently utilized at least 50% of their cumulative IPv4 address blocks >>>> in order to receive additional IPv4 space. This includes all IPv4 space >>>> reassigned to their customers.” >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Comments: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> These changes were originally included in ARIN-edit-2021-1. Staff and >>>> Legal review of ARIN-edit-2021-1 on June 14, 2021 indicated that some >>>> changes were not editorial in nature. The editorial changes went forward >>>> in ARIN-edit-2021-1 and the non-editorial changes are included here. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Timetable for implementation: Immediate >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ARIN-PPML >>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net >>>> <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). >>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >>>> Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any >>>> issues. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> =============================================== >>>> David Farmer Email:far...@umn.edu >>>> <mailto:email%3afar...@umn.edu> >>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services >>>> Office of Information Technology >>>> University of Minnesota >>>> 2218 University Ave SE >>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g> >>>> Phone: 612-626-0815 >>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 >>>> =============================================== >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ARIN-PPML >>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net >>>> <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). >>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >>>> Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any >>>> issues. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-PPML >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net >>> <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >>> Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any >>> issues. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-PPML >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net >>> <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >>> Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any >>> issues. > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net > <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> > Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any > issues. > -- > =============================================== > David Farmer Email:far...@umn.edu > <mailto:email%3afar...@umn.edu> > Networking & Telecommunication Services > Office of Information Technology > University of Minnesota > 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 > Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 > =============================================== > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
_______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
