jim, I am glad to see that you are as appalled by the treatment of the prisoners as i am. i have actually been involved in discussions with some that feel that the prisoners got what was coming to them.
the point i was trying to get at was that his orders may have very well come from up the chain of command http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6790622 . given the memos where gonzales, at the doj at the time, formally concluded that the geneva convention did not apply to the conflict with al-queda it is not outside the realm of reasonable doubt that the orders actually came down the chain of command from the top. here is a link to the actual memo i am talking about: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4999148/site/newsweek/ so this now (for my questions sake) takes the question of legality out of it. i also think it is somewhat plausible that it came from above as these were not situations where discretion was involved. pyramids of naked people, costumes, picture taking, etc..it had to be pretty much out in the open. so, for arguments sake assume that the orders came from above. under those circumstances what is your opinion on the soldiers sentence, and how do you think that will impact other soldiers who are put in questionable positions when orders come from above. after reading your response below, i think that i had originally thought you towed a much harder line on doing as ordered. principles is ne of the topics that this thread touches on. when does your moral obligation override your contractual obligation to you employer, even if it is uncle sam? for the record, i feel the sentence is justified. but this is coming from someone who has not served in the military. tony --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Tedesco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> > Jim,> I see your point of view, but can i ask your take on the current > situation with Spc. Charles Graner Jr and his current conviction > stemming from the 'abusegate'. I dont want to stir the pot (yeah > right) on terrorists noit being normal POW's. My concern is more > directly linked to someone doing as they are told and then beingleft > hung out to dry. This man faces 10-15 years for, what he claims, > doing as he was told. I do not think that it is too far fetched to > think that these orders may have come from above. a couple of the > reasons for this is Gonzales' (ashcroft's successor) authored the > justice departments new view on prisoner treatment in the current > terror crisis we face. The justice department recently did a 180 on > this, but that was not until there was public outcry. I think itdoes > leave a somewhat reasonable doubt that he was rouge element.> > I know that court martial guidelines do not fall in line what us > civilians know as our rights in court, so i dont know how much > reasonable doubt comes into play.> > Do you feel that his sentence, is reasonable? or rather, is it > understood that these things may happen in the military? When is it > acceptable to break the chain of command? I undersdtand the need,but > when it comes down to it, it is only by the grace of god that youor > i are not in graner's cell.> > respectfully yours,> tony > > //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > TONY,>This comes down to a persons princples while working as a chef infood service I was ask & told to do things that I knew was againest law.I work in a supermarket during a grand opening where I was ask todo things that would make you sick.Hold roaster chix overnight hot soit come off the bone easy the next day to make chix salad non washingof foods etc.I walk off that job.After turning them in to my localB.O.H.,State Assemblymen & I went to Congress & ask for a Law to bepass to where Chefs,Managers in charge of kitchens at times ofinspections should pay fines to the local B.O.H for certain foodservice laws such a workers smoking while working with food, nohairnets.tempertures of food.Cross cotamination of foods.CongressmanPallone pass it to Congresman Holt because in was my Congressman atthe time.The 107th Congress was beginning a debate in Food Safeyproposals in July of 2001.My letter was brought their by CongressmanHolt.And brought before Congress.The Center for disease control &Prevention {CDC} estimate that each year in the U.S. 76 millionpeople get sick 325,000 are hopitalzed & 5000 die from food relatedillnesses.In August of 1998 President Clinton established a Councilon Food Safety to create a strategic plan to coordinate all agenciesbudgets for food safety activities & respond to a Natinal Academy ofSciences report.In this letter I wrote to Congress I said that in1980 my Food Service Sergeant in Cook School said 10 -20 years fromknow their will be new diseases out their some food related becauseof 2 reasons.Lazy & Uneducated people in Food Service.I ask Congresswas in right.I have walk off of several jobs overthe years because ofkitchen things that would surprise you.I work in oe kitchen to wearwhen the waitress came back to to make your salad that's when theyhad cigrattees hanging out of their mouth.I lasted one week the moneywas great but my princple came first.I turn them into the B.O.H.Myprincples come first. What these soiders {guards} in the pictures did was wrong treatingthese POW like they did.The soliders if found gulity deserve whatthey get.Their are other people in their Chain of Command they couldhave went to.It comes down to a person Princples in life.I findimpossable to believe that these soliders couldn't find a 1stSergeant or Officer to go let them no that they was being givingorders that they no is againest the Military Laws. JAMES GRABE Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
