Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:25:17 -0700 

 >Do blacks get reservation there?




*** What does THAT have to do with WHAt goes on in India? Are Indians 
so ignorant, so incapable to decide what is right fore them, that 
they have to go by what the USA does or doesn't do?




Indian Democracy is still maturing.



*** Really? A maturing process is not STATIC in time. It evolves. 
Where has India demonstrated such evolution since independence, as 
far as shooting down its own people every month?



India is incapable of change, because its intelligentsia is absent 
from its governance. Sandip's arguments are the best examples.



But perhaps according to you, we should replace Indian governance 
with the >Maoist philosophy.



*** One does not have to put blinders on one's imaginations. But 
that is what you are doing. You cannot even imagine to your full 
potential, even when no one is impeding it, controlling it. That is 
tragic.






At 5:08 PM -0700 6/1/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:

Do blacks get reservation there?


Since they dont, how does your US of A plan to bring them up the 
economic ladder? Is the fact that they dont riot reason enough for 
complacency? They could any time - given the necessary momentum and 
impetus.



Indian Democracy is still maturing. Since we did not get to write 
the constitution in 1785 or whatever - we need time to sort out 
things. Also - Reservations are a way to undo the age old prejudice 
perpetuated by high caste hindus (ask who?). Too bad if everyone 
want the lollies together.



But perhaps according to you, we should replace Indian governance 
with the Maoist philosophy. Then in the new order of things, anyone 
who protests will just be rounded up and done with - including Ulfa 
supporters.



-SD



----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Chan Mahanta 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chan Mahanta 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org

Sent: Friday, June 1, 2007 11:52:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

At 4:43 PM -0700 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:


That is why I asked about Hurricane Katrina where the black 
community was subjected to continual harrasment and their social 
griveiances never redressed. The black-white within the larger 
issue of racism continues to linger on.




Now are we comparing apples with apples??




Tell us what your US of A did in this case and how it solved a 200 
year old problem.




Rgds,

SD





*** Yes, we ARE indeed comparing apples and oranges.  Racial bias 
issues today in the USA do not end up in riots and the 
military/police shooting down rioters. These are now settled  thru 
law making and in courts, civil as well as criminal.



But the problem is not gone. Perhaps we should encourage the USA to 
apply thousands of years old Hindu doctrines from India to better 
accomplish the task of racism, prejudice and discrimination :-)?





Compare that to Indian/army police shooting down their fellow men, 
by the dozens, routinely, almost every month, by their govts. 
advertised as DEMOCRATIC. So much so that the populace has resigned 
to the idea that mass grievances of minority groups will never be 
addressed until they resort to violence. The only language 
desi-demokrasy understands and pays heed to is that of violence and 
bloodshed.




Every society has problems. Functioning DEMOCRACIES have devised 
ways to resolve such conflicts peacefully and equitably, thru a 
political process and thru the courts., instead of REFUSING to 
recognize such discord in society or grievances of the numerical 
minorities, until violence breaks out.
That has been the recurring story of  what is packaged as democracy 
in India to wave to the world.




From these posts it is abundantly clear to anyone paying attention, 
that a significant  section  of the Indian intelligentsia's concerns 
(be it from India or be it from abroad) for other human beings, even 
of their own, is limited to shedding crocodile tears, when it is 
convenient to do so.



Finally, I have one question:


        EVEN if the USA is just as bad or worse than India's human 
rights record or in its inability to
        resolve societal conflicts, does it JUSTIFY or NEUTRALIZE 
India's record or ERADICATE its

        own dysfunction?



cm









----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chan Mahanta 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org

Sent: Friday, June 1, 2007 12:54:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots


 >In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to 
expand on, I am sure).





*** Yes, but we are comparing apples and oranges.



 >Elian Gonzalez



** It was case of enforcement of a court order. No one was killed 
if I am not mistaken.




 >Ruby Ridge


*** It was a case of criminal kidnapping.


 >David Koresh



*** Again a criminal case of confinement and refusal to submit to a 
court order, leading to a police/paramiltary raid, to defy which 
the inmates of the commune committed mass suicide.





None of these were anything akin to political /social disaffections 
, ignored by authorities, leading to demonstrations that turned 
into rioting terminated by military /police firing against their 
OWN PEOPLE.







At 8:29 AM -0600 5/31/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:


Just to butt in here a bit.




In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to 
expand on, I am sure).




Elian Gonzalez

Ruby Ridge

David Koresh




In the last two, (it wasn't the US Army) but paramil. forces - 
people got killed




On 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Still waiting to hear what happens in similar situations in US of 
A - say like if some African Americans were to protest again over 
Hurricane Katrina? Maybe we should learn and implement similar 
policies here.






Do they get 125 yrs jail...or Guantanamo Bay?.......or there's 
political settlement?




Rgds,

Sandip



----- Original Message ----
From: umesh sharma <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: SANDIP DUTTA <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Chan 
Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
<mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:56:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujar>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujar


it confirms my opinion that Gujjars are not that backward -- in 
comparison to the tribes /castes who are in SC ST category -- 
nobody oppresses them - but they are maig this demand after upper 
caste have got 10% reservation in Rajasthan and Jats -another 
dominant warrior caste (rules Alwar and Haryana) has been included 
in OBC category by former Congress govt. of Rajasthan


Umesh

SANDIP DUTTA <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

"Think deeper" - he he!




How much deep info did you have about Meenas, Gujjars etc in 
Rajasthan? - before you read the BBC report?




And you already decided it was a legitimate demand?



BTW, you didnt answer what happens in the US of A.



Rgds,

Sandip



----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: SANDIP DUTTA <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Chandan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
<mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

Sandip:




You need to to think a little DEEPER!





WHY did RIOTING have to take place to begin with? Did these people 
wake up one fine morning and decided, : Heck, things are dull, 
let us go burn some buses today and  cut-off policemen's limbs?





Think about it and come back with your questions again.




sd


































At 6:06 AM -0700 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:


Hello Sondon Da,





As far as I understand, police and RAF are meant to maintain law & 
order and prevent rioters getting out of hand. Thats their job. 
Army is called in only when situation gets out of control. Same 
approach is applied everywhere. Local Admin calls in the army. In 
this case, Rajasthan police had no experience handling anything of 
this kind in the last many decades.





May we know what approach is taken towards rioters who use 
violence as a form of protest and then try justifying it - in the 
worlds greatest demokrasy - your home, the United EStates of 
Amrika? I mean people who damage govt. property, possibly kill and 
maim others and try to undermine state authority?





Rgds,

SD

----- Original Message ----
From: Chandan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
To: <mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:59:35 AM
Subject: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots

Chandan Mahanta saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you
should see it.

** Message **

This is typical of the Indian state's conflict resolution program, 
which has not changed in sixty years after freedom.


** Army deployed after India riots **

Troops are deployed in India's Rajasthan state after 14 people are 
killed in clashes over government job quotas.
< 
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6703133.stm>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6703133.stm >



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