Very briefly, I did not use the word "Population". I did use "we find some groups of people demanding". And SOME GROUPS, does not mean a whole "population".
A simple, innocent word slipped in could change the entire meaning and context. Happens quite a lot in this net :-) On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> wrote: > >First,two wrongs don't make a right. > > **** It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the > question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the > MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the > apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for > the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). > > Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer > instead of resorting to subterfuges? > > > > > Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch > > criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so > > that the thugs could have field day. > > **** It couldn't be farther from the truth. Ram's premise was that the > 'population' is 'accepting of it' > and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India. > > If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show > us WHAT your keepers and > mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been > doing all these years > with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur? > > And IF "the population" is "accepting" who is Ram or you, expatriates, to > take issue with it? > > **** So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right > or any such thing, even remotely? > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote: > > >>>> : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is > it to secure the borders?<<< > > Two things again: > > First,two wrongs don't make a right. > > Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch > > criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so > > that the thugs could have field day. > > KJD > > > > B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you > > premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? > > What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take > > issue with it, other than your personal > > > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> The central theme is such cases is > >>> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, > that it > >>> needs to be separate from India. > >> > >> > >> **** That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is > India? How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. > >> All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. > There are NO rules that govern it. > >> > >> Or are there? > >> > >> > >> > >>> n many a case I suspect, the aim is > >>> > >>> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > >>> best. > >> > >> > >> > >> ****Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? > Or is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? > >> Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their > interest, their motives? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > >>> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby > changing > >>> the entire political landscape of these regions. > >> > >> > >> > >> **** TWO points to note here: > >> > >> A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it > to secure the borders? > >> > >> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, > who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? > >> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take > issue with it, other than your personal > >> preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? > >> > >> > >> **** finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses > and conclusions. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> Very well put KJD. > >>> > >>> Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. > >>> > >>> Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity > for > >>> Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases > is > >>> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, > that it > >>> needs to be separate from India. > >>> > >>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > >>> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby > changing > >>> the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these > same > >>> folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone > is > >>> required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are > suggestions to > >>> erase borders and think of the world with no borders. > >>> > >>> The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere > between > >>> these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim > is > >>> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > >>> best. > >>> > >>> btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be > >>> discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram > da > >>> > >>> Just my 2 cents. > >>> > >>> --Ram > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka <kjit.d...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>>>>>>> When did this > >>>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is > confusing, > >>>> but > >>>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the > days > >>>> of > >>>> Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of > >>>> those Mahabharat times <<< > >>>> > >>>> If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of > >>>> centuries of common continuous political rule over the same > >>>> geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then > >>>> practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, > >>>> shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the > >>>> centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. > >>>> KJD > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur > >>>> <uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > >>>>> The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, > but as > >>>> this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > >>>> ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject > and > >>>> engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am > made to > >>>> understand. Please read on:- > >>>>> "Hi All, > >>>>> > >>>>> Reading ...... after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have > cropped > >>>> up here > >>>>> and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. > I > >>>> would > >>>>> like to clarify for ......... sake that my question of who is an > Assamese > >>>> is > >>>>> something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants > >>>> ourselves > >>>>> (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most > of > >>>> us are > >>>>> and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as > conquerors. > >>>> But we > >>>>> have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because > >>>> someone, not > >>>>> too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When > did > >>>> this > >>>>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is > >>>> confusing, but > >>>>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from > the > >>>> days of > >>>>> Mahabharat. > >>>>> > >>>>> If that is so, what happened to the original people of those > Mahabharat > >>>> times ? > >>>>> Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are > now > >>>> classed > >>>>> as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of > bangladeshis, > >>>> as > >>>>> .............. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to > them > >>>> as Assamese, > >>>>> but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much > so > >>>> that even > >>>>> the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu > >>>> people of > >>>>> upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who > later > >>>>> converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now > no > >>>> longer > >>>>> referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as > Asomiya > >>>> Musalman. > >>>>> Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the > bloody > >>>>> immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali > >>>> Hindu is > >>>>> another example. > >>>>> > >>>>> No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying > to > >>>> get away > >>>>> from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no > >>>> wonder, > >>>>> that the only community that wants to get close to us as > Assamese(others > >>>> want to > >>>>> leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are > >>>> shunned. And > >>>>> this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > >>>> immigrants, > >>>>> many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the > >>>> Governor > >>>>> hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full > >>>> report). > >>>>> > >>>>> The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands > of > >>>> books > >>>>> and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, > but > >>>> of > >>>>> perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to > electoral > >>>>> politics worldwide. You may like to refer to Samuel Huntington's > theory > >>>> of Clash > >>>>> of Civilization. Why for example is Assam, the only state in India to > be > >>>>> subdivided so many times ? Why is Assam the only state in India where > our > >>>> own > >>>>> "boys" are killing our own people ? And why is Assam, in spite of > being a > >>>> small > >>>>> state, the only one which still wants more division, not only of the > >>>> tribal > >>>>> areas or the much feared greater Bangladesh, but of the such demands > as > >>>> Upor > >>>>> Axom and Namoni Axom ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Most importantly, ........., you seems to be confused of what > constitutes > >>>> as an > >>>>> Assamese, as you said it is what one feels deep down...that is a > >>>> subjective > >>>>> decision. Are you an Assamese, I ask ?Trace your family history and > you > >>>> may find > >>>>> startling truths. Just because the British drew a line across > Goalpara in > >>>> 1947, > >>>>> cutting the Koch areas in half, does not necessarily make the > residents > >>>> on the > >>>>> other side as Bengalis, I think. > >>>> ............../.......................... and others > >>>>> from that belt, may even have some close relatives in West Bengal > today.. > >>>> so > >>>>> were they Assamese till 15th August 1947 and became Bengalis after > that > >>>> !!! huh > >>>>> !!! > >>>>> > >>>>> The issue is too large and complex. But we, the people of Assam, need > to > >>>> ask > >>>>> ourselves some basic question, and not go about opening lungis of > other > >>>> people > >>>>> and getting a ........................ pleasure of seeing the > >>>> ..................... of a so called > >>>>> immigrant. After all, we referred to some at one time as "lengta > Noga" > >>>> without > >>>>> realising that we have always been quite naked ourselves ..... > >>>>> > >>>>> I would agree with ............ (for a change) that we have survived > >>>> since the time of > >>>>> Mahabharat, survived greater onslaughts of Mughals and Maan and a few > >>>> people > >>>>> from Bangladesh cannot overrun us. > >>>>> > >>>>> More on the "great" saviour Gopinath Bordoloi later ...!!! > >>>>> > >>>>> Sanjiv Goswami > >>>>> (............) > >>>>> P.S. It became too long but I could write a thesis on this topic." > >>>>> > >>>>> Uttam Kumar Borthakur > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>> assam@assamnet.org > >>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> assam mailing list > >>>> assam@assamnet.org > >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> assam mailing list > >>> assam@assamnet.org > >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> assam mailing list > >> assam@assamnet.org > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
