>B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took time. What is India's excuse?
It's not an excuse, it's just that India has a lot more challenges, languages, people, customs & religions. No other country can boast of so much diversity. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> wrote: > The older and younger argument, as a means for defending the failures and > aberrations, is fallacious, because: > > A: It is not that India is having to INVENT what is right. They already > know it and wave it around. Except that it > is only the wrappings. > > B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took > time. What is India's excuse? > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Assam wrote: > > > C'da, > > I agree. In fact, I'll go a bit further: > > The strength of a true Democracy lies in it's ability to protect and > uphold the rights of it's weakest minorities. Once that's done, it can go > ahead with the next rung, and so on. > > Having said that, I think democracies go through phases & challenges. > Even advanced democracies (UK) find it difficult to meet those challenges. > India is only 6 decades old. Comparatively, there are glaring lapses in this > experiment, even in the US. > > > > --Ram > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or > >>> caste. > >> > >> *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to > majority > >> power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority > will must not > >> be the only thing that rules. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> C'da, > >>> > >>> If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas > >>> parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. > >>> > >>> The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? > >>> > >>> One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, > but > >>> what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? > >>> > >>> The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always > swear > >>> on the Bible. > >>> In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. > >>> > >>> Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. > Wouldn't > >>> they, even if they didn't swear? > >>> It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some > holy > >>> text. > >>> > >>>> Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they > have > >>> let a Dalit perform such a Puja? > >>> > >>> Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca > (if he > >>> so desired). > >>> > >>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or > >>> caste. > >>> > >>> --Ram > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>>>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and > could > >>>>> be termed 'cultural'. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> **** That is a real streeeetch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not > performing > >>>> Pujas., > >>>> which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the > Muslims > >>>> perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform > such a > >>>> Puja? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> KC, > >>>>> > >>>>> Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. > >>>>> > >>>>> The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of > the > >>>>> conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are > >>>> regularly > >>>>> on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And > these > >>>>> folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. > >>>>> > >>>>> Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws > (or > >>>>> societal principles). > >>>>> > >>>>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and > >>>> could > >>>>> be termed 'cultural'. > >>>>> > >>>>> --Ram da > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < > >>>>> krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Here is from wiki -- > >>>>>> > >>>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy > >>>>>> "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not > uniform > >>>>>> throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" > >>>>>> > >>>>>> **** The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those > PRINCIPLES in > >>>>>> reality > >>>>>> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES > in > >>>>>> reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's > lighting > >>>> the > >>>>>> CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. > offices) > >>>>>> decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their > sleeves > >>>> to > >>>>>> look good :) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to > >>>> reply. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ***************************************************************** > >>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >>>>>>> Well, C'da > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. > And > >>>>>>> sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to > >>>> change > >>>>>>> belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> **** That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the > >>>>>> adherents of those faiths. > >>>>>> If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find > >>>>>> examples. > >>>>>>> You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the > >>>>>> bastion > >>>>>>> of secular/democratic principles > >>>>>> > >>>>>> **** The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those > PRINCIPLES in > >>>>>> reality > >>>>>> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. > Remember > >>>>>> the TEN Commandments > >>>>>> Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they > are > >>>> now, > >>>>>> don't you :-)? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --Ram > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at > gmail.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, > while > >>>>>>>>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> C'da, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe > there > >>>> is > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>> single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some > for or > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> other (of course, I am talking about democracies). > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious > hegemony, > >>>>>>>> don't > >>>>>>>>> forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ---Ram > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at > >>>> gmail.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and > >>>>>>>> civilization. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to > remain > >>>>>> bound > >>>>>>>>>> by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is > claiming to > >>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>> secular on the one hand, while > >>>>>>>>>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hehe! > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were > just > >>>>>>>>>> talking > >>>>>>>>>>> about will be palatable :-) > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all > indications, > >>>> it > >>>>>>>>>> looks > >>>>>>>>>>> like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will > have a > >>>>>>>>>>> government chosen by it's people. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ---Ram > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at > >>>>>> gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Now comes the hard part :-) > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org > >>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>>> assam@assamnet.org > >>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>> assam@assamnet.org > >>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> assam mailing list > >>>> assam@assamnet.org > >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> assam mailing list > >>> assam@assamnet.org > >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> assam mailing list > >> assam@assamnet.org > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
