> It's not an excuse, it's just that India has a lot more challenges, > languages, people, customs & religions. > No other country can boast of so much diversity.
**** It is NOT a nation, that is why! It masy claim to kingdom come to be one. But the truth is different, historically and even today. **** I was impressed to all heck when the Egyptian military stood down and refused to shoot at its own people. I remember seeing Attenborough's Gandhi and Jaliyanwallabagh. And much later, in our life-times came the Sikh pogroms and Godhra and countless so many others. On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:58 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took > time. What is India's excuse? > > It's not an excuse, it's just that India has a lot more challenges, > languages, people, customs & religions. > No other country can boast of so much diversity. > > --Ram > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The older and younger argument, as a means for defending the failures and >> aberrations, is fallacious, because: >> >> A: It is not that India is having to INVENT what is right. They already >> know it and wave it around. Except that it >> is only the wrappings. >> >> B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took >> time. What is India's excuse? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Assam wrote: >> >>> C'da, >>> I agree. In fact, I'll go a bit further: >>> The strength of a true Democracy lies in it's ability to protect and >> uphold the rights of it's weakest minorities. Once that's done, it can go >> ahead with the next rung, and so on. >>> Having said that, I think democracies go through phases & challenges. >> Even advanced democracies (UK) find it difficult to meet those challenges. >> India is only 6 decades old. Comparatively, there are glaring lapses in this >> experiment, even in the US. >>> >>> --Ram >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >>>>> caste. >>>> >>>> *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to >> majority >>>> power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority >> will must not >>>> be the only thing that rules. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>> >>>>> C'da, >>>>> >>>>> If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas >>>>> parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. >>>>> >>>>> The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? >>>>> >>>>> One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, >> but >>>>> what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? >>>>> >>>>> The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always >> swear >>>>> on the Bible. >>>>> In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. >>>>> >>>>> Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. >> Wouldn't >>>>> they, even if they didn't swear? >>>>> It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some >> holy >>>>> text. >>>>> >>>>>> Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they >> have >>>>> let a Dalit perform such a Puja? >>>>> >>>>> Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca >> (if he >>>>> so desired). >>>>> >>>>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >>>>> caste. >>>>> >>>>> --Ram >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmaha...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and >> could >>>>>>> be termed 'cultural'. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> **** That is a real streeeetch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not >> performing >>>>>> Pujas., >>>>>> which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the >> Muslims >>>>>> perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform >> such a >>>>>> Puja? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> KC, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of >> the >>>>>>> conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are >>>>>> regularly >>>>>>> on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And >> these >>>>>>> folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws >> (or >>>>>>> societal principles). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and >>>>>> could >>>>>>> be termed 'cultural'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Ram da >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < >>>>>>> krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is from wiki -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy >>>>>>>> "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not >> uniform >>>>>>>> throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> **** The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those >> PRINCIPLES in >>>>>>>> reality >>>>>>>> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES >> in >>>>>>>> reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's >> lighting >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. >> offices) >>>>>>>> decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their >> sleeves >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> look good :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to >>>>>> reply. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>>>>> Well, C'da >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. >> And >>>>>>>>> sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to >>>>>> change >>>>>>>>> belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> **** That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the >>>>>>>> adherents of those faiths. >>>>>>>> If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find >>>>>>>> examples. >>>>>>>>> You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the >>>>>>>> bastion >>>>>>>>> of secular/democratic principles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> **** The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those >> PRINCIPLES in >>>>>>>> reality >>>>>>>> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. >> Remember >>>>>>>> the TEN Commandments >>>>>>>> Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they >> are >>>>>> now, >>>>>>>> don't you :-)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --Ram >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at >> gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, >> while >>>>>>>>>>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> C'da, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe >> there >>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some >> for or >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> other (of course, I am talking about democracies). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious >> hegemony, >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ---Ram >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at >>>>>> gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and >>>>>>>>>> civilization. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to >> remain >>>>>>>> bound >>>>>>>>>>>> by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is >> claiming to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> secular on the one hand, while >>>>>>>>>>>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hehe! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were >> just >>>>>>>>>>>> talking >>>>>>>>>>>>> about will be palatable :-) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all >> indications, >>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> looks >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will >> have a >>>>>>>>>>>>> government chosen by it's people. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---Ram >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at >>>>>>>> gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now comes the hard part :-) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>> assam@assamnet.org >>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>> assam@assamnet.org >>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>> assam@assamnet.org >>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> assam mailing list >>>>> assam@assamnet.org >>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> assam mailing list >>>> assam@assamnet.org >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam@assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org _______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
