Dilip:
>DD: My legal expertise is at about the same level as yours, not much. >However I >want to say that your statement about "Americans >.... cringing....." is not >justified. Geelani's wife was >charged separately for her crime of withholding >information from the >investigators. She was not asked to testify against the >husband. Looks >like there are two crime allegations and two individuals. *** I am not qualified to judge YOUR expertise on legal matters :-). But from my common sense perspective, what you are arguing about is without merit. There is NO difference between testifying against a spouse and providing incriminating information against him/her. It would be absurd for the law to prohibit forcing a spouse to testify against the other while allowing the authorities to PROSECUTE the spouse on a SEPARATE charge of WITHOLDING potentially incriminating information on the same case. It would defy common sense. I qualify my comments with US public and US laws, because I have no idea what Indian laws are related to these issues, and/or whether POTA overrides the usual laws, even if such prohibition against spousal immunity exist in Indian laws, which are very similar to US and British laws due to a common ancestry. >DD: Like everyone else here, I agree that Indian courts have bogged down >with >the large number of lawsuits. *** That is NOT the ONLY or the PRIMARY moral of this story. But I am sure you know what it is :-). >But releasing Sheikh and Masood had nothing to do >with their long wait >for >court hearing. Whether they were in jail for five >years or not, or >whether >they were convicted or not, was of little consequence >when the >threat to blow >up the hijacked plane with the passengers was made. The >>threat seemed real at >that time because the plane was parked in >>Afghanistan, and storming and rescue >of passengers was not possible. GOI >had no >alternative but to capitulate to >the terrorists. *** We know from widely published accounts that the families' PRESSURE to obtain the release of the hostages WAS the primary reason for giving in, against declared policy, for which ABV came under intense criticism from the hawks. But the fact of the five plus years of imprisonment WITHOUT trial WAS also a factor, as was widely discussed and debated in that particular context, because I remember reading about it more than once. However WHO RAISED the issue, the hostage families, the Kashmiri insurgents, the Pakistani press or international observers, I am not certain of. At any event, it would be highly unlikely for Tavleen Singh, a widely repected columnist, to have raised the issue, if it had NOT relevance to the story. At 9:41 AM -0800 12/16/02, D Deka wrote: > > > Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Hi A: > >*** Apparently not. It will be interesting to see how THIS saga plays out. >I didn't know about Geelani or his conviction today, but our local paper >also ran the news. One item caught my attention which Americans would >cringe at is the fact that one of the men's wife too was convicted, for >WITHOLDING information from the govt. In America a spouse CANNOT be FORCED >to bear evidence against the other. > >DD: My legal expertise is at about the same level as yours, not much. >However I want to say that your statement about "Americans >.... cringing....." is not justified. Geelani's wife was >charged separately for her crime of withholding information from the >investigators. She was not asked to testify against the husband. Looks >like there are two crime allegations and two individuals. > >*** What she was referring to is the fact that India had to bow to >international pressure to give into the hijackers' demand that these two >fellas be released, because they were held in JAILs WITHOUT a trial, for >over 5 years. When that happens, reasonable people could suspect that >there is NO credible evidence. Why else would there NOT be a trial? Turns >out that there was a diary of Omar Sheikh in the hands of Delhi >authorities, which was a 'smoking gun'. But apparently it was never >examined by the police. Later it somehow found its way into Britain and >was published in a series of newspaper articles. > > > >DD: Like everyone else here, I agree that Indian courts have bogged down >with the large number of lawsuits. But releasing Sheikh and Masood had >nothing to do with their long wait for court hearing. Whether they were in >jail for five years or not, or whether they were convicted or not, was of >little consequence when the threat to blow up the hijacked plane with the >passengers was made. The threat seemed real at that time because the plane >was parked in Afghanistan, and storming and rescue of passengers was not >possible. GOI had no alternative but to capitulate to the terrorists. > > > >c-da > > > > > > > > > > >At 10:17 AM -0600 12/16/02, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: >> >> >>>Professor Geelani, who taught Arabic at Delhi University, was arrested a >>>>day after the attack on Parliament. Why? Because as a Kashmiri his >> >> >> >>Hope Prof. Geelani has "won" the case (assuming he is innocent as his >>defense is showing) and got out. Indian jail (any jail/prison, >>actually) is scary. They physically torture..even when the person is >>temporarily taken in as a suspect...and this POTA, IS verry scary. It >>gives more power to the police if s/he is already corrupted/biased. >> >> >> >>>said before in this column, that two of the subcontinent's major >>>terrorist >leaders Azhar Masood and Omar Sheikh were in Indian jails for >>>five years >before being >released in exchange for the passengers of IC >>>814. >Sheikh has since been convicted by a >Pakistani court for the >>>murder of >journalist, Daniel Pearl, and Masood is believed to be the >>>>mastermind of >the attack on Parliament. A justice system that punishes >>>innocent people >and allows terrorists to remain 'under trial' is a >>>justice system that is >> >> >> >>So, is she saying that India was right to put them in jail to begin with, >>cuz they won't have been able to do any of these violent jobs again, if >>they were not released? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >From: Chan Mahanta >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: A Flawed >>Justice System >Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:53:28 -0600 > >The following >>is from the Sentinel: > > > > > >A Flawed Justice System >Tavleen >>Singh > >When human rights lawyer, Nandita Haksar, rang me to ask if I >>would write >something about the 'Geelani case' my first reaction was >>unsympathetic. Was >this the Geelani who was the son-in-law of the >>Kashmiri politician, I >asked, because then I was definitely not >>interested. Even if he were only a >journalist he would surely have known >>that the Jamaat-e-Islami his >father-in-law headed openly supported >>militant groups waging a violent >struggle to make Kashmir part of >>Pakistan. I must have got to about this >point in my sanctimonious tirade >>when she interrupted me to say she was >speaking of Syed Abdul Rahman >>Geelani, who before his arrest in connection >with the December 13 >>terrorist attack on Parliament had been a professor at >Delhi University. >>> >"I am as opposed to terrorism as anyone" she said "but this man has >>been >wrongly arrested and it will not help the fight against terrorism >>if this >kind of thing is allowed to happen". She then sent me a large >>bunch of >papers on the case, which include copies of appeals from >>Amnesty >International and Delhi University and Jawaharlal Nehru >>University (JNU) >teachers as well as details of Geelani's arrest and >>trial. Reading through >them left me horrified and saddened and came as >>yet another reminder that >unless the evils of the criminal justice >>system in India are not removed >urgently we could one day soon see a >>total collapse of the rule of law. > >The week of the first anniversary >>of the terrorist attack on Parliament - >what some call our 9/11 - is a >>good one to draw attention to the grave >injustice done to Mr Geelani and >>his family. On December 16, his case comes >up for judgement and his >>lawyers are hopeful that he will be acquitted but >what happened to him >>needs to be recounted, over and over again, to draw >attention to the >>kind of injustice that is being perpetrated in the name of >fighting >>terrorism. > >Professor Geelani, who taught Arabic at Delhi University, >>was arrested a >day after the attack on Parliament. Why? Because as a >>Kashmiri his >telephone calls were being routinely tapped by the police >>and they >intercepted a conversation between him and his brother in >>Kashmir. > >The police claim that during his conversation, the professor >>said something >that sounded like he was justifying the attack on >>Parliament. The >translation from Kashmiri to Hindi, on which they based >>this charge, was >done by an illiterate vegetable seller and when >>Geelani's lawyers had it >translated by two other people they found that >>the words yeh zaroori hota >hai that supposedly justified the attack did >>not exist on the tape >recording of the conversation. But, since the >>arrest was made under the >dreaded POTA the professor has spent his past >>year in Tihar Jail in a >maximum security cell. POTA does not allow for >>bail. > >In Geelani's statement to the special court in which he is >>being tried, >this is what he says happened to him after his arrest. "On >>December 14, >2001 after I was arrested I was blindfolded and taken to >>some place which >was like farmhouse. At that farm house tea was ordered >>by the police >officials and on the sugar sachles (sic) Ashoka >>Countryside was written. At >the farm house I was made naked and tortured >>and I was hanged upside down. >I was forced to make confessional >>statement but I made no confessional >statement as I was not involved. >>Thereafter I was threatened if I made no >confessional statement, my >>family members would be eliminated. On 14th >night I was brought to >>special cell Lodhi Colony where I found my wife, my >two children, my >>brother, my brother-in-law and one another relative at the >special cell. >>They had already been arrested." > >Despite eminent journalists, lawyers >>and writers - including Arundhati Roy >and Rajni Kothari - being part of >>the All India Defence Committee for Syed >Abdul Rehman Geelani, despite >>the appeals from Amnesty International, the >professor has remained in >>jail. > >If Professor Geelani is acquitted next week he will, >>ironically, be >considered among the lucky ones who manage in their >>lifetime to get justice >from a system so deeply flawed that ten years >>after 200 people were killed >in the Mumbai bombings, justice has still >>not been done. > >Last week, on the very day that Dawood Ibrahim's >>brother, Anees, allegedly >one of those who masterminded the bombings, >>was arrested in Dubai, the >trial finally ended in a Mumbai special >>court. It began on June 30, 1995. >If this is how long it takes to bring >>terrorists to justice in India can we >even dare to claim that we have a >>working criminal justice system? When I >put this question to a Mumbai >>lawyer who supported last week's lawyers >strike against longer working >>hours he said, "The problem is not created by >us lawyers but by the fact >>that we have too few judges. If there were >enough judges then cases >>would not take so long to be concluded." > >When looked at from the >>perspective of an outsider, though, it seems pretty >much as if everyone >>is to blame for the fact that to clear the backlog of >cases in Indian >>courts it is estimated that it would take more than 325 >years. Most of >>all, though, the Government is to blame for never having >paid enough >>attention to rectifying the wrongs in the system. When did you >last >>hear, for instance, of action being taken against police officers who >>>arrested and tortured an innocent man? When did you last hear of police >>>officers in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu being punished for their inability >>to >catch a murderous criminal like Veerappan? When did you last hear of >>a Law >Minister making a determined effort to rid us of the hundreds of >>obsolete >laws that clog the system? When did you last hear of action >>being taken >against government departments that contribute to the >>clogging by filing >pointless cases? > >It is estimated that more than >>70 per cent of civil cases in our courts >involve some government >>department or other as litigant. In most cases, the >matter could be >>settled out of court but in a criminal waste of taxpayers' >money and the >>nation's time, these cases languish in courtrooms across the >country. Is >>it any wonder then that even when terrorists are on trial the >case can >>take anything from ten to 20 years? > >Things are so bad that even if we >>did manage to extradite Dawood Ibrahim's >brother for trial in an Indian >>court he could remain under trial and >unpunished for the rest of his >>life. It is important to remember, as I have >said before in this column, >>that two of the subcontinent's major terrorist >leaders Azhar Masood and >>Omar Sheikh were in Indian jails for five years >before being released in >>exchange for the passengers of IC 814. > >Sheikh has since been >>convicted by a Pakistani court for the murder of >journalist, Daniel >>Pearl, and Masood is believed to be the mastermind of >the attack on >>Parliament. A justice system that punishes innocent people >and allows >>terrorists to remain 'under trial' is a justice system that is >sick. >>When are we going to get a Law Minister or a Chief Justice who >realizes >>that the malaise is now terminal? >>MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 >>months FREE*. > > > > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com>Yahoo! Mail >Plus - Powerful. Affordable. ><http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com>Sign up now
