I totally disagree with the point of view that Islamic terrorists indulge in suicide bombing because their religion asks them to and in the case of "others", its a matter of "sheer desperation or making a political statement". Islamic terrorism is as much of a political movement founded in desperation as any other violent insurgency movement. I also see no moral superiority of someone who hurls a lethal bomb while keeping himself or herself safe relative to someone who kills himself or herself in the process. S.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Ram Sarangapani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:56 AM > To: Roy, Santanu > Cc: Rajen Barua; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dilip/Dil Deka; > ASSAMNETCOLORADO > Subject: Re: [Assam] It takes a village? > > > IMHO, Self immolations are not, in the true sense, a definition of > suicide bombers (SB). The SBs take lives along with themselves. I see > the difference something like hara-kiri and kamakazi. The Rajiv Gandhi > case is the only one I know of where other lives were taken. > > But that aside, SBs do so becuase they are desparate. Islamic SBs are > different in the sense that they are encouraged to do so (kill the > infidels & self) and one is granted you so many virgins for the > effort. > > Kamakazis (if I am not mistaken) owe their very lives to the Emperor > (not God, I think). > > If you find cases of Hindu SBs, the reasons are more out of sheer > desperation or making a political statement, and not because Hinduism > dictates or encourages it. > > During WWII, there were many US service men who would strap themselves > with grenades and blow up Germans (and themselves) -- die fighting. > > Would that be considered as sucide bombing? Most wouldn't. > > > On 5/18/05, Roy, Santanu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Exactly what do you mean by a Hindu suicide bomber? Wasn't > Rajiv Gandhi > > assasinated by a "Hindu" who was also a suicide bomber? > Suidicide bombing is > > quite well and alive among the LTTE, almost all of whom are > "Hindus". Self > > immolation for political causes is rampant in south India. > > No society believes in suicide. And every society I know of > believes in > > martyrdom - in some form or the other. > > Santanu. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rajen > > Barua > > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:06 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dilip/Dil Deka; ASSAMNETCOLORADO > > Subject: Re: [Assam] It takes a village? > > > > After all is said and done, there is another side of the > equation. One will > > have to answer why there is no Hindu suicide bomber or an > Assamese suicide > > bomber. And you don't have to struggle for the answer. > > It is because the Hindu society or Assamese society donot believe in > > suicide. Islam does. In Islam, one can go to haven by > committying suicide > > for the country. > > Rajen Barua > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Dilip/Dil Deka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ASSAMNETCOLORADO" > > <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:33 AM > > Subject: Re: [Assam] It takes a village? > > > > > >If you want to stop a wave of suicide bombings, the > likes of which we are > > > >seeing in Iraq, it takes a village. I am a big believer > that the greatest > > > >restraint on human behavior is not laws and police, but > culture and > > > >religious authority. > > > > > > > > > *** That is a very interesting belief. It is a convenient > one, now that > > suicide- > > > bombings have become the norm in Iraq where none existed > and after > > > thousands of innocents have been slaughtered by US bombs > for which no > > > village nor religious outrage was anywhere to be seen or > heard, and > > > particularly since Iraqis had nothing to do with 9/11. I > don't recall > > Friedman's > > > outrage at the killing of Iraqi innocents by US bombing. > Where was his > > faith? > > > Where was his village of the righteous? > > > > > > The politics of religion is no different from any other > poiltics. Suicide > > > bombing is an act of desperation against an overwhelming > enemy. It is > > > assymetrical warfare at its most assymetrical. > > > > > > The expressions of outrage like Friedman's or those of > others who find > > > common cause with it is selective ast best, and thus will > go nowhere, as > > > history amply illustrates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Date: 2005/05/18 Wed AM 09:42:39 EDT > > > > To: ASSAMNETCOLORADO <[email protected]> > > > > Subject: [Assam] It takes a village? > > > > > > > > >From the article below, I quote, "In identifying the > problem, though, > > Mr. > > > Na'mat also identifies the solution. If you want to stop > a wave of suicide > > > bombings, the likes of which we are seeing in Iraq, it > takes a village. I > > am a > > > big believer that the greatest restraint on human > behavior is not laws and > > > police, but culture and religious authority. It is what > the community, > > what the > > > village, deems shameful. That is what restrains people. > So how do we get > > the > > > Sunni Arab village to delegitimize suicide bombers?" > > > > > > > > Laws and police, or shame on the perpetrators by means > of culture? Which > > > one do you think works better? Does religion (as Friedman > says) have any > > role > > > in bringing about restraint? > > > > Dilip > > > > Outrage and SilenceBy THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN > > > > Published: May 18, 2005 > > > > > > > > It is hard not to notice two contrasting stories that > have run side by > > side > > > during the past week. One is the story about the violent > protests in the > > > Muslim world triggered by a report in Newsweek (which the > magazine has > > > now retracted) that U.S. interrogators at Guant?namo Bay > desecrated a > > Koran > > > by throwing it into a toilet. In Afghanistan alone, at > least 16 people > > were > > > killed and more than 100 wounded in anti-American rioting > that has been > > > linked to that report. I certainly hope that Newsweek > story is incorrect, > > > because it would be outrageous if U.S. interrogators > behaved that way. > > > > That said, though, in the same newspapers one can read > the latest > > reports > > > from Iraq, where Baathist and jihadist suicide bombers > have killed 400 > > Iraqi > > > Muslims in the past month - most of them Shiite and > Kurdish civilians > > > shopping in markets, walking in funerals, going to > mosques or volunteering > > > to join the police. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet these mass murders - this desecration and > dismemberment of real > > > Muslims by other Muslims - have not prompted a single > protest march > > > anywhere in the Muslim world. And I have not read of a > single fatwa issued > > by > > > any Muslim cleric outside Iraq condemning these > indiscriminate mass > > > murders of Iraqi Shiites and Kurds by these jihadist > suicide bombers, many > > of > > > whom, according to a Washington Post report, are coming > from Saudi Arabia. > > > > > > > > The Muslim world's silence about the real desecration > of Iraqis, coupled > > > with its outrage over the alleged desecration of a Koran, > highlights what > > we > > > are up against in trying to stabilize Iraq - as well as > the only workable > > > strategy going forward. > > > > > > > > The challenge we face in Iraq is so steep precisely > because the power > > shift > > > the U.S. and its allies are trying to engineer there is > so profound - in > > both > > > religious and political terms. > > > > > > > > Religiously, if you want to know how the Sunni Arab > world views a > > Shiite's > > > being elected leader of Iraq, for the first time ever, > think about how > > whites in > > > Alabama would have felt about a black governor's being > installed there in > > > 1920. Some Sunnis do not think Shiites are authentic > Muslims, and are > > > indifferent to their brutalization. > > > > > > > > At the same time, politically speaking, some Arab > regimes prefer to see > > the > > > pot boiling in Iraq so the democratization process can > never spread to > > their > > > countries. That's why their official newspapers rarely > describe the > > murders of > > > civilians in Iraq as a massacre or acts of terror. Such > crimes are usually > > > sanitized as "resistance" to occupation. > > > > > > > > Salama Na'mat, the Washington bureau chief for the > London-based Arabic > > > daily Al Hayat, wrote the other day: "What is the > responsibility of the > > [Arab] > > > regimes and the official and semiofficial media in the > countries bordering > > Iraq > > > in legitimizing the operations that murder Iraqis? ... > Isn't their goal to > > thwart > > > [the emergence of] the newborn democracy in Iraq so that > it won't spread > > in > > > the region?" (Translation by Memri.) > > > > > > > > In identifying the problem, though, Mr. Na'mat also > identifies the > > solution. > > > If you want to stop a wave of suicide bombings, the likes > of which we are > > > seeing in Iraq, it takes a village. I am a big believer > that the greatest > > restraint > > > on human behavior is not laws and police, but culture and > religious > > authority. > > > It is what the community, what the village, deems > shameful. That is what > > > restrains people. So how do we get the Sunni Arab village > to delegitimize > > > suicide bombers? > > > > > > > > Inside Iraq, obviously, credible Sunnis have to be > brought into the > > political > > > process and constitution-drafting, as long as they do not > have blood on > > their > > > hands from Saddam's days. And outside Iraq, the Bush team > needs to be > > > forcefully demanding that Saudi Arabia and other key Arab > allies use their > > > media, government and religious systems to denounce and > delegitimize the > > > despicable murder of Muslims by Muslims in Iraq. > > > > > > > > If the Arab world, its media and its spiritual leaders, > came out and > > > forcefully and repeatedly condemned those who mount these > suicide attacks, > > > and if credible Sunnis were given their fair share in the Iraqi > > government, I am > > > certain a lot of this suicide bombing would stop, as > happened with the > > > Palestinians. Iraqi Sunnis would pass on the intelligence > needed to > > prevent > > > these attacks, and they would deny the suicide bombers > the safe houses > > they > > > need to succeed. > > > > > > > > That is the only way it stops, because we don't know > who is who. It > > takes > > > the village - and right now the Sunni Arab village needs > to be pressured > > and > > > induced to restrain those among them who are engaging in > these suicidal > > > murders of innocents. > > > > > > > > The best way to honor the Koran is to live by the > values of mercy and > > > compassion that it propagates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Assam mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > > > > > Mailing list FAQ: > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > > To unsubscribe or change options: > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Assam mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > > > > > Mailing list FAQ: > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > > To unsubscribe or change options: > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Assam mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > > > Mailing list FAQ: > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > To unsubscribe or change options: > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Assam mailing list [email protected] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
