> surely only the largest players need Z. When should Google have moved its 5,500,000 servers to z? A mechanic only need 2 tools. A hammer when something should move but won't and duct tape when it moves but shouldn't. Medium players should be using z servers. One IBM z16 can have 2,500 PCIe slots compared to the 8 that the biggest non-IBM motherboards. If Linux were efficient, then more than 8 PCIe slots would be needed. Manufacturers would build it if there were demand. Surely Google alone with 5,500,000 servers would make it profitable.
> although Amazon, E-Bay, Microsoft Cloud Services seem to manage without it.... What alternative do these companies have? Their employees refuse to become z/OS programmers where they don't have control over security, optimization and every other aspect of the computer. They feel it's better to use Big-O instead of relying on Intune to identify program bottlenecks. IBM programmers are business experts whereas Linux programmers are computer experts proud of the tools they use and build. > Did they really "move" TCP/IP & UNIX? If it came from VM, then why did use USS dubbing and a USS RACF segment? TCP/IP 3.1 was from BSD Unix and it was very apparent. 3.2 was better but the 3.4 rework made a world of difference. As for USS, the wiki you mentioned says "not be derived from the AT&T source code". USS was derived from something which I think was BSD. Some of the kernel would be rewritten but there is a lot of code they wouldn't rewrite and obtained from somewhere. The kernel is a small part of what we think of as Unix and many parts were retained. Shells, script and more was carried over from somewhere. >> I think IBM wants to integrate z/OS products to retain their investments and >> expand their customer base.. > Why do that. It would result in a huge loss of hardware revenue. > IFLs for running UNIX are much cheaper than the CPUs needed to run z/OS. IFL's are discounted because Linux runs poorly on z16. Every CPU in a z16 is the same so IBM will never discount an entire z16 just for Linux. Linux customers don't want z/OS so z16 is not an option for Linux only customers. If IBM wants to increase the z16 market share, they must make RHEL perform as well as z/OS and charge full price for CPUs. IBM has a huge investment in z/OS software that if compatible with RHEL would bring in the same revenues as z/OS. On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 02:03:10 AM PDT, dave.g4...@gmail.com <dave.g4...@gmail.com> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List <ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> > On Behalf Of Jon Perryman > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2023 1:47 AM > To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Will z/OS be obsolete in 5 years? > > IBM RHEL announced it's move to closed source (IBM RedHat Enterprise Linux). > With some changes, DB2, RACF and other z/OS products could run in Linux on > z16 in one sysplexed Linux image. A heck of a lot of changes, for a start z/OS is EBCDIC and Linux is some modern descendant of ASCII ... ... and if they ran on Linux on Z than why won't they run on Linux on some other platform, surely only the largest players need Z.. .. although Amazon, E-Bay, Microsoft Cloud Services seem to manage without it.... > We know it's possible because IBM moved > Unix and TCP into z/OS. Did they really "move" TCP/IP & UNIX? The original TCP/IP in MVS came from VM and was written in PASCAL so not UNIX based. >From what I remember USS was written from scratch. The entry in Wikipedia >seems to confirm this, it says :- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_Services " ... It is the first UNIX 95 to not be derived from the AT&T source code. " So freshly created, not moved .... > IBM RHEL said closed source would force non-paying > customers to buy RHEL licenses but this makes no sense. As a statement, it makes perfect sense. If all else is equal it means they will receive money for something they don't at present. > Something else must be in play. Ah, a conspiracy theory. Of course other things are in play, but I believe they are more about protecting the image that "z" is different, in a good way to other platforms than moving zOS to Linux. In fact moving components from z/OS into Linux would, I believe devalue them and reduce their USPs.... > I created a survey at https://forms.gle/ZTPXsDJo8Z4H93sv7 to gain insights > into > IBM's decision to close source RHEL. You can skip the survey if you don't > want to > take it and view the survey results through this website. Feel free to pass > this > along. > I think IBM wants to integrate z/OS products to retain their investments and > expand their customer base.. Why do that. It would result in a huge loss of hardware revenue. IFLs for running UNIX are much cheaper than the CPUs needed to run z/OS. > Why is the z/OS community ignoring IBM RHEL closed source? Because its not relevant.? Is it ignoring it? > Are software vendors preparing their products for Linux? I assume that those that are relevant already have, but for any that were using free RHEL on Z to develop will now face extra charges. Will their prices go up? Will they exit the Z market. ... one last point, my question would be, is this likely to back-fire on IBM? Will it deter any one in a University or Academia from buying Z if they have to pay, or will IBM offer them a discount of 100%? Dave