Great. Appetite wet. Thanks. On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 7:00 AM, Thomas Eckardt <thomas.ecka...@thockar.com> wrote:
> >that out of rotation, prodding every so often to see > >if it's back online > > >I'm sure implementation might not be. > > I'm sure it is implemented. > Read all changelogs for the last years! > > To see how it works - switch on 'DNSResponseLog' and set 'MaintenanceLog' > to diagnostic.. > > >Why have 3x the DNS workload? > SPEED !? > I agree, 3 or more times the workload is too much - 2 time would be > enough. > > I like the idea to limit the number of nameservers used, instead of using > all nameservers all times. This makes it possible to define for example 5 > DNS-server or even more, but limit the usage to the still in time fastest > 2 or 1 or any other number (hmmm... one is not nice). > Assume we limit to two DNS-server. As long as any of the both is answering > - fine - but the first worker, that detects a DNS problem, will force the > recheck and reordering of the all defined nameserver. > Per default, assp checks all defined nameservers once in a minute. > > > Thomas > > > > > Von: K Post <nntp.p...@gmail.com> > An: ASSP development mailing list <assp-test@lists.sourceforge.net> > Datum: 21.05.2015 21:29 > Betreff: Re: [Assp-test] More MX and A record lookup issues > > > > >>an optimization in my opinion of network resources > >>I don't care about your network resources - or any other resources - any > longer. This time has gone. > > Ouch. > > You are the expert, I can only ask questions and seek your advice - and > sometimes that spurs a new way of thinking or doing things for ASSP. > You've made some significant (to me) changes to ASSP based on some of my > (incessant) prodding. Thank you for that. > > I don't believe that you don't care about network resources, mine or > otherwise. I simply don't buy it. Maybe you want me to shut up about > this, > or take a break, but you know that network resources are important, > especially when they're limited for a charity for example. If we don't > have to work servers any more than >>necessary<< we shouldn't - you can't > possibly disagree with that. > > Why have 3x the DNS workload? If a server goes down for maintenance, we > try another and take that out of rotation, prodding every so often to see > if it's back online. Simple concept, I'm sure implementation might not > be. > > I'll stop, but I have a feeling that upon review, you'll see that what I'm > saying IN CONCEPT makes sense. Whether that's something you want to do, > is > up to you. > > > On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Thomas Eckardt > <thomas.ecka...@thockar.com> > wrote: > > > >I had turned off the reuse > > > > this is no longer required with latest dev build. > > > > >and only enabled when the > > admin knows that the DNS servers are local > > > > If I would trust the knowledge of the assp admins, the core code of assp > > would be the half. > > > > >Are you seeing situations where >internal< dns > > servers regularly are failing? > > > > Yes - for example, simply some downtime. > > > > >Maybe you could consider giving us the > > option to first query the fastest responding server > > > > No. The reason is simple. In truth, assp uses three different > DNS-engines, > > each one optimized for its usage and speed. Each one working a bit > > different. > > > > >an optimization in my opinion of network resources > > > > I don't care about your network resources - or any other resources - any > > longer. This time has gone. > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: K Post <nntp.p...@gmail.com> > > An: ASSP development mailing list <assp-test@lists.sourceforge.net> > > Datum: 21.05.2015 15:09 > > Betreff: Re: [Assp-test] More MX and A record lookup issues > > > > > > > > Thanks for the explanation. I had turned off the reuse of the dns > > connections (as per your suggestion when I saw the problem) and it's > still > > querying all 3 servers fyi. > > > > No question, ASSP needs fast and reliable DNS servers. If you're using > > dns > > servers external to the organization or with latency issues due, I could > > see trying multiple at once in the interest of speed and reliability - > > ASSP > > needs to come first - a way higher priority that keeping DNS queries > low. > > But, if all DNS servers are internal and reliable, why cause what I'm > > calling "extra traffic?" Redundant dns queries inside the network cause > > additional internal traffic (which I don't care about), but then sends > > additional dns traffic outside when those internal servers query the > root > > servers and ultimately the authoritative servers for each hostname. > > > > No one has ever complained to me about the DNS server load caused by > ASSP, > > so we're good there - and believe me, i would hear it if I was doing > > anything to cause an unreasonable load. I just hate waste and feel like > > we > > could reduce the number of queries by approximately (N-1)/N where N is > the > > number of dns servers assuming more than 1 in an environment where all > > servers are internal, reliable, and of similar fast speed. > > > > A couple weeks ago I asked about retrying DNS if there's no result, and > > now > > I know why you said it was so silly, because we're already trying > multiple > > times to each DNS server!! Why not just try once and if there's not a > > reply in a reasonable amount of time, then try the other servers, maybe > > even at the same time? Are you seeing situations where >internal< dns > > servers regularly are failing? Maybe you could consider giving us the > > option to first query the fastest responding server (which you said ASSP > > already keeps track of) and if that doesn't reply, time the others and > use > > their results?? Periodically query all N to check on speed. That would > > be > > an optimization in my opinion of network resources and I don't >>think<< > > it > > would slow down ASSP if implemented properly and only enabled when the > > admin knows that the DNS servers are local, reliable, and fast. > > > > With 100k messages, why have as least 3 million queries total with 3 DNS > > servers, when we could reduce that average to as low as 1 million? I > > don't > > think ASSP would be negatively impacted. You do? > > > > On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 4:38 AM, Thomas Eckardt > > <thomas.ecka...@thockar.com> > > wrote: > > > > > >(round robin or randomly selected) > > > > > > ASSP is smarter - it knows how fast the DNS-servers are answering and > > uses > > > the fastest first. If a name server can't be reached - it is removed > > from > > > the querylist for some time. > > > As long as the nameserver order is not changed, it tries to use > > permanent > > > sockets. Because DNS-queries are also done by many other Perl modules > > > (Mail::SPF for example), it redirects there calls to its own > DNS-engine > > > instead using the default Perl DNS implementation. > > > > > > > > > >would be a more standard implementation of DNS queries > > > > > > What a standard - what RFC? Not the OS, the applications makes the > > rules. > > > Each app may handle DNS queries different. By the way, the Net::DNS > > module > > > in Perl works the same way. > > > ASSP V2 is designed to be as fast as possible - it has not the time to > > > wait for slow DNS-servers. > > > As an ASSP admin you have to know, that assp will produce up to 100 > DNS > > > queries for a single mail (depends on the enabled features and there > > > configuration). > > > So if your assp handles 100.000 mails a day, the used DNS-Servers must > > be > > > able to answer 10.000.000 queries a day (but at least 1.000.000 !) > > > > > > An day has 86400 seconds and the default DNS-Timeout is two seconds - > I > > > think the numbers are selfexplaining. > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: K Post <nntp.p...@gmail.com> > > > An: ASSP development mailing list > <assp-test@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > Datum: 21.05.2015 06:05 > > > Betreff: Re: [Assp-test] More MX and A record lookup issues > > > > > > > > > > > > I ask if it's normal because I don't (or didn't know). It's illogical > > to > > > me that it does, so I find the question perfectly reasonable. > > > > > > I assumed that we'd want ASSP to try one of the DNS servers at a time, > > > especially if we're using internal DNS servers. If for some reason > that > > > selected DNS server (round robin or randomly selected) times out, > remove > > > it > > > from the rotation for a while so it's not a source of constant delay, > > and > > > try the next dns server. ASSP shouldn't be using internal dns servers > > > that > > > aren't reliable. I specify multiple just so that a single point of > > > failure > > > doesn't bring down ASSP. > > > > > > Querying one at a time would allow multiple DNS servers listed for > > backup > > > purposes only without increasing the DNS query load unnecessarily* I > > > would think that would be a more standard implementation of DNS > queries > > in > > > general. Isn't that the way Windows and Linux workstations and > servers > > > operate normally? If you've got 3 dns servers in windows and do a dns > > > lookup, it asks one server (as far as I understand it). If that times > > > out, > > > it moves on to the next. I can't say that I've ever seen (or noticed) > a > > > server querying every DNS server it is assigned to use with the same > > query > > > every time. > > > > > > *I say "unecessarily" becuase >>I<< don't think it's necessary, > but > > if > > > I'm off base on this concept I'd love to understand why. > > > > > > Anyway, I'm glad that my incessant questions keep finding these minor > > yet > > > potentially impactful bugs that your continually able to diagnose and > > fix > > > - > > > and quickly. Thanks so much for that. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Thomas Eckardt > > > <thomas.ecka...@thockar.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >is it normal for each query > > > > to ask each server?? > > > > > > > > You should be able to answer this question yourself!!! > > > > > > > > Yes - what else makes sense? > > > > > > > > The logic is: query all-> wait - use the first result - repeat all > if > > > > failed. - max time = DNSTimeout * DNSretry > > > > > > > > Otherwise it would be: query the first NS -> wait for result > > (NO-result) > > > > -> query next NS -> wait .... Next....Next ... LAST -> repeat all if > > > > failed - max time = DNSTimeout * Nameserver * DNSretry > > > > > > > > But I found a BUG in assp. Because DNS uses UDP the order of the > > answers > > > > of a DNS server must not be the same like the order of the queries, > if > > > > multiple queries are done using the same socket. > > > > This is currently not expected by assp - it ignores the DNS > header-ID, > > > if > > > > the DNS sockets are reused. The next build will fix this. > > > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: K Post <nntp.p...@gmail.com> > > > > An: ASSP development mailing list > > <assp-test@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > > Datum: 19.05.2015 23:19 > > > > Betreff: Re: [Assp-test] More MX and A record lookup issues > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas, I'll disable the reuse socket option. is it normal for each > > > query > > > > to ask each server?? > > > > > > > > The self loader was removed a long time ago. > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:16 PM, K Post <nntp.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the question Bob, but nope, they're straight WIndows > 2012 > > > R2 > > > > > DNS servers. no dnsmasq. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Robert K Coffman Jr. -Info From > > Data > > > > > Corp. <bcoff...@infofromdata.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > May-19-15 11:41:26 Info: sent DNS query for > > '_dmarc.my.orbitz.com' > > > > type > > > > >> > 'TXT' to nameserver 172.23.0.52 > > > > >> > May-19-15 11:41:26 Info: reuse DNS socket for 172.23.0.53 > > > > >> > > > > >> By any chance, are you running DNSMASQ on your DNS servers? > > > > >> > > > > >> - Bob > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> One dashboard for servers and applications across > > > > Physical-Virtual-Cloud > > > > >> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications > > > > >> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable > > > > Insights > > > > >> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. > > > > >> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Assp-test mailing list > > > > >> Assp-test@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-test > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > One dashboard for servers and applications across > > Physical-Virtual-Cloud > > > > Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications > > > > Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable > > Insights > > > > Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. > > > > http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Assp-test mailing list > > > > Assp-test@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/assp-test > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: > > > > ******************************************************* > > > > This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential, > > > legally > > > > privileged and protected in law and are intended solely for the use > of > > > the > > > > > > > > individual to whom it is addressed. > > > > This email was multiple times scanned for viruses. 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