> -----Original Message----- > From: Henry Coleman [VoIP-PBX.ca] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: February 9, 2006 2:37 PM > To: TAUG > Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Music libaray > > Jim, I entirely agree but there are no royalties for > broadcast or streaming, the station pays the royalties every > time they play a CD or Record The copyright (by definition) > applies to copying the media.
In the case of music copyright also has to do with public performance. > Any payment to this > organization would be completely useless who do they remit ? The artist would be entitled to part of that. > my radio station doesn't want the money and the record > companies have already been paid. They've paid for a license to broadcast it. That license does not necessarily apply to re-broadcasting it. > So my guess is they keep > most of the money. No doubt true. > If I send them $98 so I can stream a radio station which may > not even be in this country, are they going to send my money > back saying I don't need to get their permission? ....I don't > think so. Of course not, because you DO need their permission. > I remember 30 odd years ago, the music industry want to ban > the selling of blank audio cassettes because people could > record music for free and play it back later !. Of course > they lost that battle, but the original audio cassette > (designed by Phillips) was developed adding Dolby and > improving magnetic tape formulations to the point where it > was a good as the "reel to reel" tape recorder. Without this > development the HD in a computer could hold no more that a > meg or two of storage. I'm not arguing whether SOCAN has a good idea (or even a grasp of reality), merely that it is what is expected. SOCAN expects you to pay certain fees to have music on hold. Where you get the music from does not seem to have anything to do with it, and whether they should or should not is irrelevant. They, as the trustee of the copyright, have the "right" to determine how their product is "copy"ed. > You use the word "should" get permission... who says ? SOCAN says, backed up by the laws of Canada regarding this sort of stuff. > What legal or ethical rules am I breaking ? Copyright law. > Who is being hurt by my actions ? > Who is loosing revenue by my actions ? SOCAN would argue that the artist is. > Lets take a look behind the green curtain... ( "Wizard of Oz") OK let's. "If you use music from . . . the radio, then your business is required to pay (under Tariff 15B)." (http://www.socan.ca/jsp/en/about/faq/licensors.jsp) I think we are debating two different things. You are arguing the moral side, I am discussing the legal side. Am I a lawyer? Nope, but I can nevertheless assure you that SOCAN has the legal right to pursue what they feel are copyright infringements. I am not trying to tell you what you should or should not do. But if you are telling your customers that they do not have to pay royalties on music on hold because the radio stations have paid it YOU ARE WRONG. The radio station doesn't care because it's not their legal responsibility; it is yours (or, actually your customer). I respect your opinion, and I personally kinda agree with it, but legally, you are wrong. Don't believe me? Have your lawyer call SOCAN. Nuff said. Jim. -- Jim Van Meggelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177 "A child is the ultimate startup, and I have three. This makes me rich." Guy Kawasaki -- > -----Original Message----- > From: Henry Coleman [VoIP-PBX.ca] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: February 9, 2006 2:37 PM > To: TAUG > Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Music libaray > > Jim, I entirely agree but there are no royalties for > broadcast or streaming, the station pays the royalties every > time they play a CD or Record The copyright (by definition) > applies to copying the media. Any payment to this > organization would be completely useless who do they remit ? > my radio station doesn't want the money and the record > companies have already been paid. So my guess is they keep > most of the money. > If I send them $98 so I can stream a radio station which may > not even be in this country, are they going to send my money > back saying I don't need to get their permission? ....I don't > think so. > I remember 30 odd years ago, the music industry want to ban > the selling of blank audio cassettes because people could > record music for free and play it back later !. Of course > they lost that battle, but the original audio cassette > (designed by Phillips) was developed adding Dolby and > improving magnetic tape formulations to the point where it > was a good as the "reel to reel" tape recorder. Without this > development the HD in a computer could hold no more that a > meg or two of storage. > > You use the word "should" get permission... who says ? > What legal or ethical rules am I breaking ? > Who is being hurt by my actions ? > Who is loosing revenue by my actions ? > > Lets take a look behind the green curtain... ( "Wizard of Oz") > > Take care ....Henry > > > > Jim Van Meggelen wrote: > > >It's not so much a matter of sending anyone money as knowing > what you > >may be held liable for. > > > >I may not feel any moral obligation to send money for > playing music on > >hold, but that does not mean that I don't want to be > well-informed on > >the matter, so that I can correctly advise my customers. > > > >Leaving the "legal stuff" to "the people who know" does not > sound like > >a solid strategy to me. By the time they get involved, it's > often too late. > >Ignorance of the law is not innocence. > > > >We can (and perhaps even should) be willing to debate our various > >opinions on the matter, but the fact remains that you, your > customers, > >and anyone else who wishes to play music on hold is expected > by SOCAN, > >who represents the copyright holders, to pay royalties. > > > >Whether we SHOULD or not is an entirely different matter, > ripe for debate. > > > >Jim. > > > >-- > >Jim Van Meggelen > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177 > > > >"A child is the ultimate startup, and I have three. > >This makes me rich." > > Guy Kawasaki > >-- > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Henry Coleman [VoIP-PBX.ca] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Sent: February 9, 2006 12:50 PM > >>To: TAUG > >>Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Music libaray > >> > >>If you want to send money to some organization to avoid being > >>prosecuted for "Illegal use of an unregistered Music on > Hold" then > >>go ahead. > >>But who is going to ? > >>If the station itself tells me that it's fine that's good > enough for > >>me! > >>With a radio broadcast there is the expectation that it will be > >>freely available to the general public. > >>otherwise I would have to get a licence from the radio > station before > >>I turned on my radio at the beach ( just in case someone might > >>overhear it ). > >>So lets get real...The advertisers pay the radio stations > to reach the > >>public. MOH does this( in a very small way). > >>Lets leave this legal stuff to the people who know. > >> > >>Henry > >> > >>John Lange wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>It should be pointed out that whether you are using a > radio or or a > >>>streaming music source, NEITHER of these methods is "royalty > >>> > >>> > >>free". You > >> > >> > >>>must buy a license from SOCAN. The stations themselves may also > >>>prohibit this use. > >>> > >>>http://www.socan.ca/ > >>> > >>>Of course this also applies to playing CDs. > >>> > >>>The last time I checked the licenses are cheap though. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >> > >>Henry L. Coleman > >> > >>www.voip-pbx.ca <http://www.voip-pbx.ca> > >> > >>1 866 415 5355 > >> > >>"The Future Is Not What It Used To Be" > >> > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------ > --------- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional > >>commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.3/254 - Release > >>Date: 08/02/2006 > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Henry L. Coleman > > www.voip-pbx.ca <http://www.voip-pbx.ca> > > 1 866 415 5355 > > "The Future Is Not What It Used To Be" > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.3/254 - Release > Date: 08/02/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.3/254 - Release Date: 08/02/2006
