Paul Licameli <[email protected]>于2017年9月11日周一 上午12:10写道：
> On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 6:26 AM, mkpoli <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I checked a lot of files including GB (Chinese National Standardization)
>> and some other rules.
>>
>> I recommend format "%{h}d 时 %{m}d 分", which means:
>>
>> 1 hour -> 1 时
>> %d hours -> %d 时
>> 1 minute -> 2 分
>> %d minutes -> %d 分
>>
>>
>> Further Reading:
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> In modern Chinese language, it's extremely free to express a time:
>>
>> Time with both hours and minutes: there is no need for classifier.
>> Time with only hours: classifier is optional.
>>
>> e.g. ( [] for optional)
>> 1. (ENG) 1 hour and 2 minutes = (CHN) 一小时两分钟 = (Literally) One Hour
>> Liang(=Two) Minute = (Writing CHN) 2 时 2 分 .
>> 2. (ENG) 1 hour = (CHN) 一[个]小时 = (Literally) One [Ge(classifier)] Hour.
>> 3. (ENG) 2 hours = (CHN) 两[个]小时 = (Literally) Liang(=Two)
>> [Ge(classifier)] Hour.
>>
>> Two hours and two minutes can be translated as:
>> 2 时 2 分 (Writing)
>> 两小时两分钟 (Oral, not best if written down)
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> Thanks.
>
> I don't know if %{h}d is accepted by wxString formatting -- I must
> research that.
>
Just for examples, like %{1}d %{2}d or whatever. As far as I know,
translating system using POTs and POs can support formatting rearrangment.
> Time expressions are indeed one example of locale dependency, and again,
> this bit of code, that pieces two phrases together with the format "%d %s
> and %d %s.", shows more bad English grammar bias.
>
> But aside from special expressions for time -- I was concerned about a
> more general point about plurals: It's bad for us to ask that you translate
> single words out of context like "track" and "tracks".
>
> Rather, at least, "1 track" and "%d tracks". Do you agree that the proper
> Chinese would use classifiers in that context, but you would not know that
> you should do that for "track" or "tracks" in isolation.
>
> And, as we have learned, Basque would need to put the numeral 1 after the
> noun but other numerals before. Thus, I should give the Basque translator
> "%d tracks" (or hours) and not just "tracks".
>
Yes. And I think "%d %s and %d %s." is worse than "1 hour and 1 minute" +
"1 hour and %d minutes" + "%d hours and 1 minute" + "%d hours and %d
minutes". That's a way to do it, but I'm not sure if there is a better way
for compatibility in the wxString stuff.
For a language's morphology without plural - singular difference, I can
translate them as the same. ("1 时 1 分" + "1 时 %d 分" + ...)
Yes, "1 track" -> “1 个轨道” = 1 + Ge (classifier) + Track, "%d tracks" -> "%d
个轨道" = %d + Ge (classifier) + Track. But I can just treat them as the same
(“1 个轨道” + "%d 个轨道").
Ok. Same thing as I said before.
>
>
Other languages surely have their own complications too. Some languages
> may even need more than two number forms. Thanks to Yuri's hints, I have
> educated myself some more in how xgettext does indeed accommodate such
> languages.
>
> This particular example of times is a phrase which, in English, contains
> not one but two parts that can independently vary into singular or plural
> -- and this presents extra difficulty for proper internationalization!
>
> The "%d %s and %d %s." at least is accompanied by /* i18n-hint: A time in
> hours and minutes. Only translate the "and". */
>
> But now I think it would be better first to translate "1 hour" or "%d
> hours", likewise the minutes, and then substitute into "%s and %s", with a
> comment about the purpose of that format.
>
I think so. That is equivalent as result to my idea.
>
> And furthermore there are optional "contexts" for gettext, and likely "%s
> and %s" should have a context connected to it.
>
> (And "context" might also let us translate light-as-not-dark distinctly
> from light-as-not-heavy, if ever that is really needed.)
>
> PRL
>
>
>
>>
>> Paul Licameli <[email protected]>于2017年9月10日周日 上午1:25写道：
>>
>>> From what little I know of languages, this question goes especially to
>>> Chinese and Russian translators, but maybe it is also relevant to other
>>> languages I know less about.
>>>
>>> I found a small gap in our translations. See the code below. "hour",
>>> "hours", "minute", "minutes" did not get extracted to the .pot file. The
>>> intention is to compose strings like "1 hour and 2 minutes" from
>>> translations of pieces of the phrase.
>>>
>>> But I think it is better not to fix it by giving you four more little
>>> words to translate. Rather, give a little more context. That is, make the
>>> pieces to translate a little bigger:
>>>
>>> 1 hour
>>> %d hours
>>> 1 minute
>>> %d minutes
>>>
>>> I am thinking, for instance, that good Chinese requires a "classifier"
>>> word before "hours" or "minutes" -- but if I ask the Chinese translator
>>> just for the word "hour" or "hours" out of context, I would be given a
>>> translation without a classifier, and then assembling the pieces would not
>>> be good Chinese.
>>>
>>> // Use wxPLURAL to get strings
>>>
>>> sHours = wxPLURAL("hour", "hours", iHours);
>>>
>>> sMins = wxPLURAL("minute", "minutes", iMins);
>>>
>>>
>>> /* i18n-hint: A time in hours and minutes. Only translate the "and".
>>> */
>>>
>>> sFormatted.Printf(_("%d %s and %d %s."), iHours, sHours, iMins,
>>> sMins);
>>>
>>> return sFormatted;
>>>
>>> Below is another example of a translated phrase assembled from pieces,
>>> but without regard to other grammars. The word "of" with no context is a
>>> very poor thing to present to translators. Better in this case, I think,
>>> that the strings be
>>>
>>> 1 of 1 clip
>>> %d of %d clips
>>>
>>> (and really the first isn't good English, perhaps it should be "sole
>>> clip")
>>>
>>> I am thinking of a language like Russian where "clips" above would
>>> properly be translated into genitive plural case, but "clips" without
>>> context is again a bad thing to present to the translator. The translator
>>> would probably give me nominative plural when there is no context.
>>>
>>> wxString temp;
>>>
>>> temp.Printf(wxT("%d %s %d %s "), result.index + 1, _("of"),
>>> result.waveTrack->GetNumClips(),
>>>
>>> result.waveTrack->GetNumClips() == 1 ? _("clip") : _("clips"
>>> ));
>>>
>>> message += temp;
>>>
>>> Translators, can you name other examples like this? Are there other
>>> examples of English strings in the .pot file that are single words out of
>>> context, which gave you doubts and difficulties about the right answers?
>>>
>>> Paul Licameli
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-translation mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-translation mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-translation mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-translation mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
