Re: Manamon 2: Impressions Thread
So, I've been out for the last day and a bit, and I've come back to see that the thread exploded a little bit. That's all right. I'll address what I think I need to.
Trajectory, to an extent I take your point. I have been harsh with Aaron at times, and have been sharp with others as well. It's not my everyday mode of address, but it does come up. I'm not the only one, and I'm not necessarily the worst, but I can come on strong. I do not believe that this makes me toxic and I do not believe that this invalidates the criticism itself. I have endeavoured to be fair wherever possible.
To clarify some bits re: my relationship with Aaron where it comes to game dev:
1. When I and others suggested tweaking a couple of dragon strike scrolls to lessen the amount of pure dead air (Volcanic Storm, Embodiment of Righteousness), we got "I will never, ever change dragon strike scrolls". We weren't asking Aaron to change the mechanic itself even though it did and does cause hell for some players; we were simply saying that some skills are just unusable and pointless. Now, this was all five years and more ago, so I can let it pass.
2. I pointed out comma/grammar issues in the script of Paladin, and nothing was changed. I did not at any point go through and categorically write everything down, but did suggest that Aaron might wish to enlist an editor. He didn't do this.
3. In the original Manamon game, I said much the same. Editing problems, continuing comma and grammar issues. When I approached Aaron about this and suggested that it could/should be worked on, what I got was (to my eye at least) an extremely tepid response consisting of something like "well that would be a lot of effort to fix the script and I can't really justify it". At that point, I could have gone through the entire game script, on top of already having written a guide, and sent the entire draft to Aaron, but that would've then meant he had to pick everything apart. Given how he was already talking about being unable to justify things (said he couldn't/wouldn't add teachable moves, wasn't balancing stats beyond fixing a few glaring issues like Tri-Kick and Stone Throw being special moves and the like), what person in their right mind would go through literally dozens of hours of vetting only to have someone soft-toss their efforts?
4. Pursuant to this, when I realized that things like teachable moves represented scope creep, I made dozens of small suggestions, mostly involving the types of moves (physical or special), the power and accuracy of said moves, and the stats of manamon. This wouldn't have totally fixed the game, but it would have helped. Aaron argued with me on a couple of points, gave no ground and demonstrated, at the time, that he was not really willing to listen. Some of this was probably down to how loud I can get. I'll own that. Some of it, I believe, is down to the fact that Aaron has ideas about how things should work, and some of those ideas are not based on observable data. His fear of power creep is based on his gut; this is why Sing is 60% accurate and why we had to pull teeth just to get a fighting move stronger than Rookie Kick on the Palador line.
5. So now comes Manamon 2. Aaron has been more open this time, and I commend him for that. I have tried to be gentler, and to also recognize and applaud the things that were done better. But when it comes to the way I am hard on him, it's because unfortunately, things that I have pointed out, offered to fix and generally expected to be better have gotten zero attention. I've offered to help, to start dialogue, to try and even right some past wrongs, but past a certain point there is only so much I can do. It should be clear that Aaron is the only dev I am this sharp with, and the reason for this should, by now, be fairly self-evident. If you fall on something once, it's just a quirk. If you have the same issue three times, it's either wilful or woeful, take your pick.
To summarize:
1. If I knew that Aaron would actually fix/update the script somewhat if I cited the literally hundreds of errors I've found (yes, they're there, I promise) then that is a project I would be willing to embark upon. I would put aside the fact that this should have been done by someone, anyone really, pre-release, because hey, at least it's getting done. The feeling I have, however, is that Aaron would resist this the same way he did last time. It would fall to me to do the dozens of hours of pro-bonno work for a person who might just hand-wave it. That's not a good feeling to have. I am more than willing to be proven wrong in my assessment here. As I said, I've attempted several times to engage in dialogue here, as I recognize that at times I can be harsh.
2. I do not believe the bit about how mainstream devs would run from what I say is entirely valid. Believe me, I've seen some extremely toxic shit on mainstream forums. Would I maybe put them off? Possibly, especially as a staff member. But I also try to balance my criticism with observation. I try to be fair. I would hope that anyone new coming in would see this, and I'm not sure it's reasonable to suggest I be extremely gentle, given the sheer repetitiveness of the issues we're facing here.
3. It needs to be emphasized. The way I speak to Aaron and deal with his products is not the way I deal with most things. Look at how I deal with Liam's games, or A Hero's Call which was extremely messy on launch. I have a ton of respect for people who get out and actually bloody well do big things. I've wanted to build a game for years but it's never gotten off the ground, so they've done things I haven't. Where my patience and tolerance both break down is when you have the same issues time and again, and either flatly refuse to, or are unable to fix them. I think it's fair to respect a desire to change and to honour positive change, while also taking note of those things which still need improvement. I dunno. At the end of the day, it comes down to approach.
I'd like to finish with one point that may come across a little sharply, though that isn't my intent.
If you do something, and I find fault with it, and your reason for not changing the thing comes down to "he was too sharp"...that's not my problem.
Let me be clear. We're talking about verifiable issues. We're not talking about opinions alone. Obviously if I get your back fur all ruffled up, then no, you're not going to be willing to listen to the opinions I give you. But if I provide measurable proof of something being busted, I would hope that if you are a developer who put your neck out to make a game, you would honour data over personal feelings, thicken your skin a little, and observe the facts.
So if I'm upsetting you off and on, maybe you don't want to hear it if I were to say "your story is shallow". Manamon 2's story, BTW, is not shallow; there are tropes, but mostly they work, and I am fairly happy with the way it's done. My pissing you off kind of invalidates my opinion when I say that your story needs more depth.
But if I tell you that you have weird adverbs or comma issues or spelling mistakes or that comparable moves of another type are better (accuracy issues, etc), then to me that's measurable data. Unless I'm boiling over with personal attacks at every turn - and I'm most definitely not doing this - it would be hoped that 1. you could sift through the bits that annoyed you to find the usable info and 2. you didn't make excuses.
I am not saying Aaron is making excuses. We are only a few weeks post-launch. But please don't make excuses for him, is what I'm saying. Either my findings are valid, or they are not valid. In the tutorial for the very first rhythm game, the timing is indeed hundredths of a second. It's doable, but it's very tight. The other games I have experienced since are not so bad. I don't know why that one's tutorial is so tight. So that, in particular, is an area where I'm willing to give ground; apart from that one tutorial, which seemed pretty exacting, everything else is fair enough. Firm, but fair. So this is a case where I was partially right and partially wrong, and will own it. So...I'm either saying stuff that is valid, or I'm not. The way I tolerate Aaron's issues less, or am less gentle, does not change facts and should not be used to change facts. If someone has thin skin after developing a game and can't take criticism, that is not the fault of any player, self included.
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