Notice my name used somewhere but on the general topics I can say 1 Recently flew the Pawnee Autotug and was extremely impressed with it (except possibly the exhaust but that is minor) Thanks Dave S 2. VH-KML C150 with 180HP is definately better than Pawnee 235 and I would say in comp conditions of towing is about the same as IGR a 250HP without hopper Pawnee which I have flown a lot. 3. A german recently visited and said they have been using a UL called a "Wild Thing" fitted with Aussie Jabiru 6 cyc with german electronic fuel injection for towing this last season and it is "very good" and is better than the Rotaxfalke which they also use for glider towing. He was a bit amaized that we do not tow with motorgliders and ultralights in Australia yet! and I was very interested that they use the Aussie Jabiru 6cyc 120 HP 4. Towing with motorgliders and ultralights the limit is the AUW of the combination so training may have to be done with a Libelle on the back and keep fuel low or not at all if heavy pilots. 5. I have done almost 2000hrs towing in Pawnees, C180, PA18 and L19 etc and all I can now say give me a motorglider anyday as I always have an out in the event of engine failure and if on glider end it is so relaxing to fly behind a tug without the slipstream to avoid. At this stage I would say I would prefer 100ft less rate of climb with a towing motorglider than an ultralight which may bounce around a bit on one of those strong inland thermal days. Also I would like to see stronger undercarriages in ULs for paddock use. I may change my views when I have more experience with UL towing. 6. I really really hope GFA etc can adjust there rules and reg to accommodate towing with such aircraft and in particular re engined motorgliders. There is a real future and it is much more fun and safer as well. I can go to Ian Kearsley at Engineering Support Branch of CASA and he will give me an Experimental Certificate of Airworthiness or whatever but I really want to do it through the GFA.
If there is somebody out there can help then please make contact. The problem is a J2200 is certified and a J3300 is not and Jabiru are unlikely to follow through with certification as now most people go the "Experimental" way. GFA only want certified engines although I do believe the later Rotaxs and their replacement parts are not certified but they are used in motorgliders. These motorgliders seem to maintain their CofA via the GFA system Ian McPhee Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481 Australia Tel +61 (0)2 66 847 642 Mob +61 (0)428 847 642 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Armistead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Tugs of the future > Roger > > I actually have heard of Univair (though not being a bug smasher pilot I > perhaps don't pay close enough note to all the Pawnee related stuff) - I > think that's who made our new struts. I was under the impression that > Univair didn't necessarily do all the Pawnee parts, and that some still > came from the Argentinian mob (whose name still escapes me). Maybe the > Argentinians only provide paperwork - i.e. the type certification and the > flight manuals ? I will never truly understand the bankruptcy, dilution, > re-birthing and combining of companies in the aviation industry - sigh ! > > One second point to note - all your e-mails are "time shifted" back in the > past. If you look at the thread below, you will notice that my e-mail was > sent at 12:18am on Friday 31st, but your reply to it was sent at 12:51am on > Thursday 30th. Better check your computer's clock and time zone settings ... > > Jason > > At 12:51 AM 30/01/2003 +1100, Roger Druce wrote: > >Jason > >Sounds like you troops haven't ever heard of Univair in the US? And parts > >they make under FAA PMA approvals & STC'd kits of parts for the PA25-150 and > >PA25-235, -260. You can get most everything you need that is of special > >nature for the Pawnee structure from Univair. The rest is standard steel > >tube, aluminium, nuts and bolts, cable, etc. OK it will cost, but the > >notion that you can't maintain a Pawnee airframe into the future for decades > >for lack of key structural parts is nonsense. You can make fabricated > >structural steel attachment clusters. > > > >Yes, corrosion in steel tubing is a hassle with aging Pawnees. But at least > >the Pawnee has decent wall thickness with most all its steel tubing > >elements. With steel tube framed ultralights the weight reduction is often > >at the expense of wall thickness. The AUF magazine a year or so ago > >highlighted the hassle with corrosion in a certain Lightwing with very low > >hours. > > > >Yes, I agree we have a towing launch cost problem & I would like to replace > >Pawnees with durable cheaper tugs. ...... > >Enough for now. > >Roger Druce > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jason Armistead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 12:18 AM > >Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Tugs of the future > > > > > > > At 04:11 PM 30/01/2003 +1000, Dave Sharples wrote: > > > >A Pawnee is of rag and metal tube construction, it is easily and > > > >economically rebuilt back to new quality, then there must be another > >30-40 > > > >years of good work in it. We did it (the airframe was not at GFA > >expense) > > > >and our 100 hourlys require little work. > > > > > > However, the problem comes from the more complex parts, e.g. wing root > > > clusters, which I believe can only be obtained as "factory original" > > > parts. And, depending on the history of your particular Pawnee, it may > > > just be that certain parts have been quietly corroding away ready to bite > > > you in the hip pocket when you least expect it e.g. wing struts (as happen > > > to one of ours at a cost of around $8K IIRC) > > > > > > Now that Piper cut the Pawnee loose from it's fleet of certified designs, > > > having sold the design certification to some Argentinian company whose > >name > > > escapes me, it's up to the new owners of the Pawnee design to keep > > > producing such parts. However, the last time we tried to get the latest > > > flight manuals for our Pawnees (to appease CASA), they were less than > > > responsive, and the CASA response to our plight was something along the > > > lines of "you'd better write a letter to the Argentinian government > > > demanding some action" - yeah sure, as if they'd be interested in the > > > problems of a few glider pilots in Australia ! I get the feeling the > > > Argentinian company isn't that interested in supporting the Pawnee design, > > > and perhaps are in some sort of financial trouble that might see the > >Pawnee > > > being sold to the next "lucky" buyer. > > > > > > Just another exciting tale from the thriving global aeronautical industry > >... > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > -- > > > * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. > > > * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message > > > * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information. > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. > > * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message > > * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information. > > > -- > * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. > * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message > * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information. > -- * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
