I was trained on Southern Cross's IS28s. I remember the first time a spin was demonstrated to me: I had no idea it would be so fast and so (comparitively) violent. I recall putting my hands up onto the canopy to brace myself -- all I could see out the front was the ground, rapidly rotating. Of course, the instructor recovered at will and without drama. I guess I've done a few dozen intentional spins since then -- and still can't say I enjoy it.
Several times in this thread there has been reference to IS-28s 'tucking' (in or under). What exactly is that? I remember when I did my first 'unassisted' spin recovery, I pushed the stick forward FAR and FAST (with full opposite rudder), and while we certainly recovered, the instructor tells me that we went past the vertical for a moment. Is that a 'tuck', or is it some other, uncommanded phenomenon. ----- Original Message ----- From: McLean Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 11:38 pm Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] IS28 ADs (was Reasons NOT to spin for fun) > re: IS28 droping in unintentionally from a thermal .. > it definitely will, because I did exactly that on an > early solo! .. it also loses a fair bit of height > being on the heavy side .. I've never done it since > then though, so it must have scared me sufficiently .. > > --- Derek Ruddock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Spin proof? Our new DG1000 spins like a top! > > > > I learnt to spin off the top of the winch in the UK, > > in a K7. It's a very different kettle of fish, as > > Harry notes, starting a spin at 1300 feet or so. > > Perhaps some of the accidents there were caused by > > instructors expecting the Pooch to recover like a > > K13 or K7. > > > > Regarding the IS28, I've spun them hundreds of > > times, and only had it tuck once. I've never been > > concerned with the spin characteristics of the 28, > > and recovery is always immediate. > > I've also never had a 28 drop into an incipient spin > > when thermalling, unlike a Pooch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of McLean Richard > > Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2004 01:04 AM > > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in > > Australia. > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] IS28 ADs (was Reasons NOT > > to spin for fun) > > > > Hi all - I thought we trained people to recover from > > spins because although our nice shiny new trainers > > are > > "spin-proof" most of our aging single seater fleet > > that the majority of inexperienced club pilots will > > fly are not? I just spent the weekend conducting > > spin-training in a puchacz ... and I did my own > > ab-initio training in an IS-28 ..the puch is much > > nicer to spin =) i don't "enjoy" spinning, but I'm > > definitely a better pilot for it. > > > > - Richard McLean > > > > --- Mark Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Harry Medlicott wrote: > > > > > > > Spinning accidents don't normally happen at > > > altitude, it is the ones close > > > > to the ground that cause the accidents. Training > > > at altitude undertaking a > > > > number of turns might be fun but I doubt if it > > > saves many lives. What is > > > > needed is plenty of practice at instantly taking > > > the appropriate recovery > > > > action when a spin is developing and, yes, > > > preferably when and if the real > > > > thing happens, you are flying a docile glider. > > > > Why make life harder than we need to? > > > > > > ANY flying activity close to the ground is more > > > hazardous than flying > > > a long way away from the ground. > > > > > > When you're a long way away from the ground, the > > > only things that can > > > hurt you are overstressing the aircraft, hitting > > > another aircraft, or > > > climbing high enough to become hypoxic (which > > > usually causes one of > > > the other effects) > > > > > > When you're close to the ground, there are all > > > manner of other > > > miscalculations and bad judgement calls which can > > > get you in trouble > > > by causing rapid height loss. If the rapid height > > > loss doesn't > > > terminate abruptly upon contact with geography, > > the > > > pilots options > > > are still limited by the loss, which might result > > in > > > a high-risk, > > > badly-planned, unexpected outlanding. > > > > > > If an aircraft's flight manual says it can spin, I > > > see no reason not > > > to spin it -- And furthermore, I see no reason not > > > to enjoy it. Just > > > like you can enjoy loops, chandelles, steep turns > > > and whatever other > > > aerobatic maneuver the flight manual says you can > > > do. However, as with > > > any other aerobatic maneuver, you should know your > > > aircraft and plan > > > what you're doing with full appreciation of your > > > abilities and > > > potential failings before you start, and you > > should > > > conduct those > > > options with adequate, well thought-out safety > > > margins. > > > > > > (hmm - that isn't actually limited to aerobatics, > > is > > > it :-) > > > > > > We're "making life harder than we need to" if we > > > conduct any > > > activity at all which limits our options when > > close > > > to the ground. > > > I know a lot of people who have a great time > > > spinning gliders, but > > > I don't know anyone who would do it below 1,500', > > > whether they're > > > in an IS-28, a Puchacz or anything else. > > > > > > We teach pilots to perform turns at varying speeds > > > and bank angles, > > > we stuff up their circuits, we simulate cable > > > breaks, we talk them > > > through stalls -- These are all things which > > aren't > > > part of *normal* > > > flight, but which teach the trainee that when > > things > > > aren't normal > > > they can still extract themselves from the > > situation > > > safely and > > > confidently. Why doens't a multi-turn spin at > > > height fit into that > > > mold? And if it does, how can you say that you > > > doubt it saves > > > many lives? > > > > > > - mark > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > > This communication, including any attachments, is > > confidential. If > > you are not the intended recipient, you should not > > read it - please > > contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy > > or use any part of > > this communication or disclose anything about it. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > http://au.movies.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
