Graeme,
 
    In the submission that I have made to the Board, I have offered to prepare a draft of each potential magazine article, based on the existing Incident and Accident Reporting system, for subsequent editing by the CTOO in whatever way he sees fit.
 
    My view is that each article should conclude with a para or two of observations, conclusions and recommendations from the CTOO or his delegate and I would expect that he would have reached those conclusions based on the existing Reporting (or subsequent investigation system), although this may need some additional time to prepare.
 
    I suggest that the main question for the GFA Board and the Management is something like "What is in the best way to build a safety conscious culture in the interests of all of our members" and I say that regular factual reporting is a good way to do that.
 
    It is my contention that it is not correct management to say that Accident and Incident Reporting should not be done because we are too busy at the moment.
 
    There appears to be an underlying theme from some who have posted on this thread that they have heard it all before, all of these lessons are known, so why doesn't someone just write a theoretical article or example about it. There are three points I would like to respond to this:
 
1    A real example is much more sobering and forceful than theory.
 
2    As a relatively new pilot involved in Cross-Country I want to know what real world mistakes others have made and I want to be able to learn from those.
 
3    It is clear that there are a number of experienced Instructors who still make fundamental mistakes or allow their students to make them, and I quote the couple of examples that are used at the Safety Seminar ..... so even if those that have heard it all before (and say that they don't need to hear it again) can, by way of example, fly past a perfectly good runway in the circuit to get low and land short/heavily damage an aircraft, newer members need to know about this example and be aware that they too are likely to be tempted to do the same at some time in their flying ..... and it obviously won't hurt Instructors to hear it again either.
 
    Re your 2nd last paragraph, having attended the Safety Seminar in Wagga recently, I wonder if the CTOO really does disagree .... and I say that if it is worth travelling around the country to present those very worthwhile Seminars, then it is certainly worthwhile reinforcing them in the Magazine.
 
    Mark said "Is there -really- anything new to learn that we don't already know .....?" and I say that the answer is a definite YES. Mark may not have anything new that he needs to learn (how good would that be?), but I reckon that every newer member, and every other member with less than say 20,000 gliding hours, can learn a lot from well written real world examples of where his/her peers have made mistakes.
 
    Penedo said "Every "yet another" report (prepared by professionals) keeps reminding of procedures which were neglected by the pilot and reminds me why they were
invented in the first place .....".
I also make the point that it is part of the traps of flying that you get "sucked in" to making mistakes, be it "just another circle to get that low-save", or " I'm low in the circuit but I'll be OK to fly past the cross-wind runway" ... and it is vital IMHO for lower hour(all) pilots to be constantly reminded that if more experienced pilot can get sucked-in to or simply make a mistake, I have potential to do that too. Taking the example from the Safety Seminar, if you had asked the Instructor "Do you need a refresher on circuit heights and procedures" before you fly today, I would be sure he would have said something like "Is there -really- anything new to learn that we don't already know .....?", yet the fundamental accident still happened.
 
Regards Geoff
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ACCIDENT & INCIDENT REPORTING

>From: "Geoff Kidd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>     It can only benefit all active pilots to learn from these reports and
>I don't understand why you would possibly object to that.

Mark - and others - aren't objecting to it, they're just pointing out that
in their opinion nothing useful would be gained from it.

You are very welcome to differ from that view, Geoff, but in today's
time-poor society, your ideas take somebody's time to implement.  If it's to
be yours, go for it.  If you simply want somebody else to add another job to
his already large burden, then no.  He's the RTO/ops, it's his decision how
he deploys his time and his energy.  If it's his professional opinion (and
most RTOs and CTOs have a great deal of experience) that he can use his life
more usefully elsewhere then that is his decision.

I'm not trying to bag you personally, Geoff but all of this stuff takes
time.  I know you think it's worth it but the guys doing the work don't
agree.  If we paid them, we could sack them but we are too cheap to even
have that hold over them.

...and think of the squeals from up north if we put up the fees.

Cheers,
Graeme Cant



>
>Regards
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Mark Newton
>   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Cc: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>   Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:13 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ACCIDENT & INCIDENT REPORTING
>
>
>   Don Ingram wrote:
>
>   > Material presented with the aim of increasing safety is duly digested
>and
>   > stored away, hopefully increasing ones level of safe behaviour. The
>crash
>   > comics however seem to have far more bite, the material presented is
>   > chillingly real & often gives one reason to pause and consider the
>particular
>   > case. It shouldn't really be so but at least in my own personal
>experience I
>   > have found that it has a greater impact.
>
>   Those who want CASA to take a greater role can also take solace in the
>   fact that GA pilots and glider pilots kill themselves in exactly the
>   same ways, and exactly the same lessons are applicable, and CASA already
>   produces a crash comic.
>
>   Glider pilots who read FSA will be just as safety conscious as they'd
>   be if they read the GFA accident reports too -- But FSA has the
>resources
>   to do the publication properly, with more depth, and with analysis from
>   aviation safety experts (instead of what some people in this thread have
>   advocated, which is producing a few paragraphs of summary raw data in
>   the mag and making everyone reading draw their own conclusions)
>
>     - mark
>
>   --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   I tried an internal modem,                    [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>         but it hurt when I walked.                          Mark Newton
>   ----- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 ------------- Fax: +61-8-82231777 -----
>   _______________________________________________
>   Aus-soaring mailing list
>   Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>   To check or change subscription details, visit:
>   http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


>_______________________________________________
>Aus-soaring mailing list
>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>To check or change subscription details, visit:
>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring


_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

Reply via email to