Hello Gary, >You come across as a bean counter! Every bean counter will agree that they >have their place in >society, and contribute mightily to our society! Some >will argue this point!
You came across as light in detail and recollection. I merely provided that detail. It disagreed with your recollections almost 100%. I will repeat again in simple terms one part of my posting. I needed to buy some fuel hose. I thought DG would be expensive, so I tried all sorts of alternative sources. Bought the fuel hose, paid over $300, and found that much of it was too stiff to fit in the space available. I then got a price from DG and found that the cost of all the hoses was only $75. So DG were charging far less than anyone else would have charged.... even if I included the EASA form and freight. Sorry if that is counting beans. I thought is was just factual information relevant to this issue. >The major point was that a part charged out at about 35 Euros, ended up here >in Australia, >costing OVER A$800. I had hoped that my posting would have proved that proposition somewhere between unlikely and impossible. >You agreed that the DG freight charges "were more than we would pay, locally, >but these are not >an internal DG charge". Re the "internal DG charge" I beg >to differ. DG can charge anything they >like. It is called postage and >HANDLING. Handling means they can charge anything they like on >top of their >actual freight charge. I am tempted to ask "Do you work for DG" or are you >simply >naive? No. I am a designer and manufacturer here in Australia. I know what it costs to send out a 10 cent part. I think most manufacturers know this and have to charge accordingly. I have analysed DG charges and I think in most cases they are charging factory time out at about $100 per hour for skilled labour which is probably normal for Europe. Anything much less than that is unsustainable. DG have a minimum handling charge of €30. If you spend more than €30 you don't pay that. I think their normal freight charge is €80. This is higher than we would pay by a little, but then we are fairly central. Most glider factories in Germany are not central and pay pay extra for being in some tiny village like Poppenhausen or Bruschal. >I like your point about paying via credit card. I have limited experience >here, but suspect that in >the bigger picture, this option is not always >available, for purchases made from businesses in the >ECU. Credit card payments are available from DG. Bank charges are charged by the bank not the supplier. I paid LX Avionics some money by bank transfer and was stung €35. Over 10% of the transferred amount. However I did not run around blaming LX (or DG). It was the bank. Banks levy bank charges. So what does the manufacturer do if the customer wants to pay by bank transfer and the bank charges a fee? Swallow the bank charge and essentially give the customer a big discount? Or pass the bank charges onto the customer? The latter is the only sensible thing to do isn't it? On a notional 10 cent part, the charges on a bank transfer would mean that the customer was getting a discount of more than the cost of the part unless the charges were debited to the customer. >I note that you totally ignored my mention of the cost of a release note ... >several hundred Euros >in this case. It would seem that bureaucracy is running >wild in German gliding circles, but I would >like to know the official GFA >position on the requirement for this documentation in Australia. The >question >is " Do we need it? (if so why?), and if not, why do we need to pay the fee >for this >document? No. I totally did not ignore your comment. In fact, I repeated the info twice. Here it is again: EASA form €10.40 EASA = European Air Safety Authority who supply the release note. Bureaucracy may be running wild in Europe, but this is not DG's problem. It's the problem of everyone in aviation in Europe. Which includes all glider manufacturers. >Finally, I note that you choose to make no comment on my observation that the >introduction of >the DG Service Fee is likely to depress the resale of gliders >that are subject to this fee. OK. I totally disagree. In fact I think it is most likely to maintain the resale value of DG gliders, especially to someone who doesn't want to buy a nightmare of technical support. As a glider owner, the most important thing is to be able to have a continuity of technical support. Here's an example. The spindle drive motor for the DG-400, 505 and 600 (?) is not longer available. Anyway, it's not that good since it was originally a cheap windscreen wiper motor. Electric motors have moved on since then. At that stage DG has two main options. 1. Do nothing and let each owner or country find alternatives, get their own engineering orders and certification etc. 2. Find and test an alternative motor and gearbox, test it properly, get it EASA certified and offer it for sale. Yes, the testing and certification would be included in the price of the part so it would not be cheap. As a glider owner, you also have choices. 1. Bodge something up on your own. 2. Get together with any DG owners in your country who have the same problem and sort out a solution. 3. Buy the DG part and say thanks that someone is still there to look after your glider. I chose the spindle motor part deliberately because having a motor stuck half up or half down on a self launcher will focus your mind very carefully on the real costs and benefits of having someone still doing technical support on your aircraft. Personally, I think that gliders are a very cheap toy to own. Have you tried owning a boat? The antifouling or slipping prices are far more per year than you would spend on routine maintenance on any glider? What about a high performance motorbike, perhaps more aligned to a sailplane? A simple service on a Ducati would cost about $750 - $900. The insurance on both boats and bikes is also far more than you pay for a glider. I owned a new Ducati which cost $13,500 and one insurance company wanted $3000 to insure it. A few years ago, one of our customers was offered their deposit back. They were on the phone every few days trying to negotiate the price downwards. I finally snapped and told the man, "You think that it's important to save a few thousand dollars, but it isn't. What is important is that in a month, six months or six years, we are still here to answer your questions. The more I reduce the price on your machine, the less chance there is of us being able to afford to answer the phone to give you technical advice." Needless to say, the guy shut up and paid the asking price. Once again, I have to disagree with you on everything except that €80 is a bit steep for freight. BR DMcD _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
