>Anybody know the difference in price between a Ventus 2CXM and a 2CX currently?
I think you pay about €25,000 for a complete self launching Solo motor + instruments in a DG glider. However, that's a certified installation. You could pick up a Rotax 2 stroke UL engine or a non certified and otherwise identical Solo for a lot less, perhaps a quarter of this. That's what you need to compare with the experimental or uncertified jet or electric motors. I think it was Churchill who said, 2 strokes are the worst form of SLG powerplant, except for the others that have been tried from time to time. I watched a 30 year old PIK self launch over the weekend with its ancient Rotax 505. It did not have the climb rate of a modern SLG but it would have used about 2 litres of fuel to get to soaring height using a motor which any competent lawn mower mechanic could service. On 20 litres of fuel, the modern 2 stroke SLG will fly about 5.5 km. It takes about 5 minutes to "recharge" the tank. Normally another 20l can be carried in wing tanks. I'm undoubtedly wrong here, but all the current breed of electric motors are going to be permanent magnet motors driven by some fancy switching regulator and a set of high-tech batteries. I've had a bit of experience with all three, but would not expect that any one of these items would last beyond 5 years. The magnets in the motor lose power over time, irrespective of the type of magnet. The hotter they get, the more rapidly they lose power. The electronics are highly stressed components… they're switching what?.... 30, 40 KVA of power? The best model aero versions don't seem to last longer than a year or two switching 1 or 2 KVA and in any case, they're obsolete technology in 3 years. I don't need to mention the batteries' life span, but any read of a model aero mag has some "humorous" stories about people losing cars, sheds and houses recharging them. Talk to the people down at Temora when they have a model jet weekend... and ask about the model fire engine which runs around putting out the fires. I'm sure that electric and jet have a lot to offer, but before you discard the 2 stroke, there's at least 90 years of development behind it and at this stage, there's nothing else which gives the same bang for the buck. D On 12/06/2010, Ross McLean <ross...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > In my dictionary, "Prohibitively Expensive" means I can't afford it J > > ROSS > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike > Borgelt > Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2010 10:41 AM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Jet Powered Sailplanes Info > > > > > > > > The electric option for the Arcus is Euro 78400 (Approx A$113,000) so > > it depends on what you mean by prohibitively expensive. > > > > > > Anybody know the difference in price between a Ventus 2CXM and a 2CX > currently? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > At 01:27 AM 12/06/2010, you wrote: > >>Thanks Mike > >>Still prohibitively expensive, hopefully costs will come down to achievable > >>levels at some stage. > >>ROSS > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > >>[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike > >>Borgelt > >>Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 5:04 PM > >>To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > >>Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Jet Powered Sailplanes Info > >> > >> > >> > >>We discussed that project here the week before last. > >> > >>Yes Bob Carlton will sell you an engine. I had a good look at one at > >>Avalon in 2009 when he had one on his Salto for this airshow routine > >>and talked with Bob for about 45 minutes. > >> > >>Last I heard an engine was around USD42,000. The you need to do your > >>own retract or get Bob to do it for you which might cost another > >>USD25000 if he does it. You want to keep the engine horizontal while > >>retracted. > >> > >>Jet sailplanes aren't new. Bob had the Silent with two AT450 engines > >>6 years ago and did the airshow circuit in the US with it, also Avalon in > >>2007. > >> > >>That glider is a TST 14 Bonus. It is a 2 seat lightweight glider. > >>There is a TS110 also which looks like an ASW19 except for the tail. > >>The wing appears to be a Std Cirrus airfoil and planform except at > >>the tip. The TST 14 2 seater increases the span by adding one metre > >>each side at the root. > >> > >>Mike > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>At 04:45 PM 11/06/2010, you wrote: > >> >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > >> > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01CB0985.7F2C9680" > >> >Content-Language: en-au > >> > > >> >Brilliant! Someone has finally done it. > >> >Does anyone know what the original glider was? Looks like a DG500 or > >>similar. > >> >The real question is can the engine & retract mechanism be bought > >> >separately to install in any other self launching or Turbo sailplane? > >> >ROSS > >> > > >> >From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > >> >[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mark > King > >> >Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 3:38 PM > >> >To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >> >Subject: [Aus-soaring] Jet Powered Sailplanes Info > >> > > >> >For those who want to fly jets but can't afford a Citation > >> > > >> >><http://www.desertaerospace.com/bonusjet/>http://www.desertaerospace.com/bo > >>nusjet/ > >> > > >> >Mark > >> > > >> > > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Aus-soaring mailing list > >> >Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >> >To check or change subscription details, visit: > >> >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> > >>Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since > >>1978 > >>phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > >>fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > >>cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 > >> > >>email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > >>website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Aus-soaring mailing list > >>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >>To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Aus-soaring mailing list > >>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >>To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since > 1978 > > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 > > > > email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
