Hi All Why is there such a paranoa about maintaining safe airspeed (which is accepted to be 1.5 times Vs plus 1/2 windspeed) near the ground for general flying if below 1,000 feet however: winch launching pilots only have to maintain 1.3 Vs while they have a gigantic airbrake deployed (ie their wing at 30 degrees or more).
Doesn't make a lot of sense. Michael Derry ______________________________________________________________ Hi All, I wrote the attached article and it received a few comments, both on and off the web. I should have summarised as follows. 1. If you enter a spin a modern glider below 1,000 ft. AGL you will almost certainly die. No amount of prior training will make much difference. 2.Your first defence is to maintain safe speed near the ground. Your early training should be such that you feel very uncomfortable if below this criteria. 3. To maintain this speed you must monitor the ASI. Ground features mean relying on the horizon attitude is not accurate, particularly with modern slippery gliders. The ASI should be checked regularly and the closer to the ground and more adverse the conditions the more frequently the check. On final under turbulent conditions a quick check no more than every 5 seconds is needed to ensure safe speed is maintained. 4. Learning and practicing incipient recovery. If things go wrong incipient recovery means living to a ripe old age more certain, whether in a thermal or close to the ground. 5. Spin training helps in spins at altitude. Enter a spin below about 1,000 ft AGL in a modern glider and you will most likely be dead in about 5 seconds. Harry Medlicott Hi All, Sorry to be controversial but I believe most of our spin training is marginal in saving lives in the real world. Of far greater significance are design factors reducing the propensity of gliders to spin. Spin related accidents in Europe have substantially reduced over time. No changes in spin training but modern gliders are far more forgiving. My first club had winch launching only and every year a tug was brought in and towed gliders to 3,000 ft for spin training. After briefing, students were quite comfortable going through the standard recovery procedures. My second club was winch launching only. Often there were periods when we had students due for spin training but weather conditions were such that thermals were not able to give us much by way of height. I experimented with a Blanik by a spin of the top of a winch launch which after one turn allowed recovery by 1,000 ft. before using the procedure with a student. OK in a Blanik but certainly not in some other types Despite very careful briefing a few minutes before the results were entirely different to those when entering a spin at 3,000 ft. Upon seeing the ground below them the student would immediately pull the control column right back and sometimes also move the control column away from the descending wing. It was an involuntary reaction but the one we would use to keep the glider in a spin. So far as I am aware most spin accidents occur close to the ground, below about 1,000 ft unless one is flying a particularly nasty glider such as an IS28, which can take over 1,000 ft for the whole process. If what I am saying is correct, then what are the chances of a pilot using the correct recovery processes in a low level spin, perhaps a considerable time after undergoing spin training or refreshing? Not very high. When asked to give a nervous pilot spin training I would say We are going to undertake spin avoidance training whereupon they would relax. After release at say 3,000 ft I would establish safe speed near the ground and invite them to mishandle the glider with rudder and aileron and try and induce a spin. The message was that if you establish and maintain safe speed near the ground, a spin is improbable. After that, of course, we undertook standard spin training. Instructors right from a students very first flight should emphasise that they have established and maintained safe speed near the ground when they are at a height at which they would not like to attempt a spin recovery. Just as importantly, that their lookout procedures are excellent. My message to a student or visitor in an introductory flight was that I could not see where we going from the back seat and that their good lookout was needed to keep us safe, Harry Medlicott >From: Peter (PCS3) Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 10:48 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Spinning Re: IS-28B CQC's last flying day: On 24/12/2014 8:41 PM, Colin Collum wrote: Gday All, One of the ironies of gliding seems to be that modern sleek gliders are not only faster in virtually every sense, they are also safer in that many of them are much less likely to spin, but unfortunately our novice pilot cant be guaranteed to always fly an aircraft that wont spin. I was instructing a girl in the front seat of a Twin Astir and said to her: "Twin Astirs just mush instead of spinning" To my surprise, she managed to spin it easily (because of her light weight) and it required full opposite rudder to stop it as well as easing the stick forward and a very steep dive enough for a loop. I was in a Ventus 2b on a Xcountry having lunch in a thermal. I reached behind me to grab the water tube; the bottle was strapped on parcel shelf above and behind me and the tube had slipped down beside me out of reach and I was going to find it from the bottle. When I looked round, the paddocks were in my direct field of vision rotating. I absolutely had no idea I was in a spin. Full opposite rudder took a loooong time to stop the rotation and the height lost was significant but fortunately did not end in an outlanding. I recite this to all my students when instructing on spins. PeterS So we need to teach them in aircraft that can be spun safely, but we also need to keep them keen and I must say that when I was learning 10 years ago, even then the IS28s gave the impression of being way too out-of-date in their performance and appearance. After going solo I graduated to the giddy heights of a Juniorthe novelty wore off that pretty quickly when from 8,500 AGL I couldnt make it 40km home at best LD into a light breeze without another thermal! Its no use saying I learned in one of those, and if it was good enough for me then it is good enough for the current generation of learners. We need to keep them interested, a little excited, able to progress quickly enough for it to be satisfying and also very safe. I dont claim to know the answers, but I doubt if it is IS28s, K13s, K6s and Juniors. K21s? Probably, but I dont know what to recommend for a first single-seater. Merry Xmas, Colin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Previous message View by thread View by date Next message Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Grant Davies Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... 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