Hi Harry The dual car system is working well, plenty of power, tension control, no cable breaks, no drum tangles and quick turnaround.
How is your winch going ? Compared to Australia, the BGA have done a lot of winch launching so it makes sense to look carefully at what they had done. I have read much of the material published on the BGA website about safe winch launching and much of it seems applicable to our operations, however I welcome input from others in Australia experienced at winch launching. The GFA sets a minumum, however as I understand it there is nothing to stop individual Clubs that are concerned about safety to up the minimum winch launch speed to a higher figure such as 1.5 Vs. We do a lot of aerotowing in Australia so we should do a safe aerotowing initiative for the Brits to follow although they have already beaten us to it. ! Cheers Michael On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 15:04:44 +1100 "Harry " <hw.medlic...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Hi Michael, > > Not sure of your winch status. The Brits after an extensive investigation > introduced âSafe Winch Launchâ. Its principles reduced the winching > accident > rate to 25% of what it was and has virtually eliminated fatalities. Worth > checking out their web site if interested. It uses 1.5 VS as the winch > launch minimum. They have no record of an airworthy glider being damaged by > overspeeding but many accidents and fatalities by being too slow. I tried to > get the GFA to adopt the principles in Safe Winch Launch. Initially they > accepted 1.5 VS as the minimum but reduced it to 1.3 VS after some clubs > complained that 1.5 VS left too small a margin between it and the max. > winch launch speed allowed for some older gliders. > > I could go on with other instances..... > > Harry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Derry > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 11:32 AM > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Spin Training > > Hi All > > Why is there such a paranoa about maintaining safe airspeed (which is > accepted to be 1.5 times Vs plus 1/2 windspeed) near the ground for > general flying if below 1,000 feet however: > winch launching pilots only have to maintain 1.3 Vs while they have a > gigantic airbrake deployed (ie their wing at 30 degrees or more). > > Doesn't make a lot of sense. > > Michael Derry > ______________________________________________________________ > Hi All, > > I wrote the attached article and it received a few comments, both on and off > the web. > I should have summarised as follows. > > > 1. If you enter a spin a modern glider below 1,000 ft. AGL you will almost > certainly die. No amount of prior training will make much difference. > 2.Your first defence is to maintain safe speed near the ground. Your early > training should be such that you feel very uncomfortable if below this > criteria. > 3. To maintain this speed you must monitor the ASI. Ground features mean > relying on the horizon attitude is not accurate, particularly with modern > slippery gliders. The ASI should be checked regularly and the closer to the > ground and more adverse the conditions the more frequently the check. On > final > under turbulent conditions a quick check no more than every 5 seconds is > needed > to ensure safe speed is maintained. > 4. Learning and practicing incipient recovery. If things go wrong incipient > recovery means living to a ripe old age more certain, whether in a thermal > or > close to the ground. > 5. Spin training helps in spins at altitude. Enter a spin below about 1,000 > ft > AGL in a modern glider and you will most likely be dead in about 5 seconds. > > Harry Medlicott > Hi All, > > Sorry to be controversial but I believe most of our spin training is > marginal > in saving lives in the real world. Of far greater significance are design > factors reducing the propensity of gliders to spin. Spin related accidents > in > Europe have substantially reduced over time. No changes in spin training but > modern gliders are far more forgiving. > > My first club had winch launching only and every year a tug was brought in > and > towed gliders to 3,000 ft for spin training. After briefing, students were > quite comfortable going through the standard recovery procedures. > > My second club was winch launching only. Often there were periods when we > had > students due for spin training but weather conditions were such that > thermals > were not able to give us much by way of height. I experimented with a Blanik > by > a spin of the top of a winch launch which after one turn allowed recovery by > 1,000 ft. before using the procedure with a student. OK in a Blanik but > certainly not in some other types > > Despite very careful briefing a few minutes before the results were entirely > different to those when entering a spin at 3,000 ft. Upon seeing the ground > below them the student would immediately pull the control column right back > and > sometimes also move the control column away from the descending wing. It was > an > involuntary reaction but the one we would use to keep the glider in a spin. > > So far as I am aware most spin accidents occur close to the ground, below > about > 1,000 ft unless one is flying a particularly nasty glider such as an IS28, > which can take over 1,000 ft for the whole process. If what I am saying is > correct, then what are the chances of a pilot using the correct recovery > processes in a low level spin, perhaps a considerable time after undergoing > spin training or refreshing? Not very high. When asked to give a nervous > pilot > spin training I would say âWe are going to undertake spin avoidance > trainingâ > whereupon they would relax. After release at say 3,000 ft I would establish > safe speed near the ground and invite them to mishandle the glider with > rudder > and aileron and try and induce a spin. The message was that if you establish > and maintain safe speed near the ground, a spin is improbable. After that, > of > course, we undertook standard spin training. > > Instructors right from a students very first flight should emphasise that > they > have established and maintained safe speed near the ground when they are at > a > height at which they would not like to attempt a spin recovery. Just as > importantly, that their lookout procedures are excellent. My message to a > student or visitor in an introductory flight was that I could not see where > we > going from the back seat and that their good lookout was needed to keep us > safe, > > Harry Medlicott > > > > > > > > > >From: Peter (PCS3) > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 10:48 PM > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Spinning Re: IS-28B CQC's last flying day: > > > On 24/12/2014 8:41 PM, Colin Collum wrote: > > Gâday All, > > > > One of the ironies of gliding seems to be that modern sleek gliders are > not > only faster in virtually every sense, they are also safer in that many of > them > are much less likely to spin, but unfortunately our novice pilot canât be > guaranteed to always fly an aircraft that wonât spin. > > I was instructing a girl in the front seat of a Twin Astir and said to her: > "Twin Astirs just mush instead of spinning" To my surprise, she managed to > spin it easily (because of her light weight) and it required full opposite > rudder to stop it as well as easing the stick forward and a very steep dive > enough for a loop. > > I was in a Ventus 2b on a Xcountry having lunch in a thermal. I reached > behind > me to grab the water tube; the bottle was strapped on parcel shelf above and > behind me and the tube had slipped down beside me out of reach and I was > going > to find it from the bottle. When I looked round, the paddocks were in my > direct > field of vision rotating. I absolutely had no idea I was in a spin. Full > opposite rudder took a loooong time to stop the rotation and the height lost > was significant but fortunately did not end in an outlanding. > > I recite this to all my students when instructing on spins. > > PeterS > > > > So we need to teach them in aircraft that can be spun safely, but we also > need to keep them keen and I must say that when I was learning 10 years ago, > even then the IS28s gave the impression of being way too out-of-date in > their > performance and appearance. After going solo I graduated to the giddy > heights > of a Juniorâthe novelty wore off that pretty quickly when from 8,500â AGL > I > couldnât make it 40km home at best LD into a light breeze without another > thermal! > > > > Itâs no use saying I learned in one of those, and if it was good enough > for > me then it is good enough for the current generation of learners. We need to > keep them interested, a little excited, able to progress quickly enough for > it > to be satisfying and also very safe. > > > > I donât claim to know the answers, but I doubt if it is IS28s, K13s, K6s > and > Juniors. K21s? Probably, but I donât know what to recommend for a first > single-seater. > > > > Merry Xmas, > > > > Colin > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > Previous message > View by thread > View by date > Next message > > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Grant Davies > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Christopher > McDonnell > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Derek Ruddock > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Mark Newton > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Darin McLean > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Leigh Bunting > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Colin Collum > [Aus-soaring] Spinning Re: IS-28B CQC's la... Peter (PCS3) > Re: [Aus-soaring] Spinning Re: IS-28B CQC'... Harry > Re: [Aus-soaring] Spinning Re: IS-28B CQC's... Daryl Mackay > [Aus-soaring] spin training Harry > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Grant Davies > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Leigh Bunting > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Mark Newton > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... James Dutschke > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying ... Leigh Bunting > [Aus-soaring] German Soaring Picture Calendars ... Mike Cleaver > Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying day: Mike Cleaver > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
