Benno,
As I mentioned on the backlash – here it is…
You see my response as not very positive or helpful – I think that is quite sad
really.
“White dude” – well ½ of that is right… I am actually TSI. I would NEVER want
to be selected/hired/elected based on this. To the point its why I never
include it on any application forms, not because im ashamed of who am I, but
because I want to be selected on merit…
The difference between my post and Mark’s post was he was offering help to the
victim, I am offering my thought/advice on a selection/election to a board. I
can see how you got these confused.
I really hope there is full representation on any board, job, industry, etc. I
guess I wasn’t clear enough the first time – Do it on merit. If that means on
my next job interview I get pipped at the post by a more qualified
female/different ethnicity/religion person/pigeon then great. Its what I want.
Equality – real equality; not the quota kind.
James Troy
Senior Systems Administration
From: AusNOG <ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net> On Behalf Of Benno Rice
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:21 PM
To: aus...@ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
So I, too, am a lurker on this list. Hell, I don’t even run any networks
besides my home one, haven’t done for ages.
That said I, too, have been watching this with interest and I’ve seen two
responses, well one response, and one class of responses, that I find
interesting.
On the one hand, you’ve got stuff like James here. James is running the exact
same set of arguments that you normally get from, generally, white dudes that
feel threatened by any attempt to address the systemic problems we have in
society in general and tech in particular. Yes, yes I know they don’t believe
that those problems are there but, well, whatever. I saw similar from Noel
Butler and from Matthew Young up-thread. All of these tend to come across as a
knee-jerk reaction against the notion that we might actually do something.
On the other hand we had Mark Newton’s “What I can do to help.” post. Instead
of a knee-jerk reaction against doing something, he put forward a completely
reasonable set of steps that he promised to do if someone were to come forward.
Hell, his set of steps form a pretty good basis for the enforcement process of
a Code of Conduct.
One of these messages was positive and valuable. The others were very much not.
Cheers,
Benno.
On 3 Oct 2018, at 12:57, James Troy <james.t...@agilityapplications.com
<mailto:james.t...@agilityapplications.com> > wrote:
Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that is
often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this thread
with a particular keen interest.
Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender diversity’
was going to get pushed.
Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes IT
as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start to
include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their
genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the
idea of the ‘best person for the job’
If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all
selected on their merits.
Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely
different can. Ie: is there someone of Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI
background? No? wow wouldn’t that be racist?
Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable.
I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to be
fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of
race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, percentages,
inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get the recognition that some
hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry
(teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for something
like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not simply to be
the token male.
We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our colleagues
when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that if an
accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should also be
accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as a
weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof.
I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that proof
and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested at the
CEO level – this protects the victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term
deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN
guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.)
aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only then actioned
upon.
Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all…
James Troy
Senior Systems Administration
From: AusNOG <ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net
<mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net> > On Behalf Of dusty
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM
To: Matthew Young <m...@mattyoung.net.au>
Cc: aus...@ausnog.net <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> List <aus...@ausnog.net
<mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> >
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young < <mailto:m...@mattyoung.net.au>
m...@mattyoung.net.au> wrote:
“While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the
Ausnog board.”
People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender.
Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show you
a deluded patriarchal fool.
From: AusNOG [mailto: <mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net>
ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins
Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM
To: <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> aus...@ausnog.net List <
<mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> aus...@ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
"Seems you've never been to a meeting."
The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated.
Kind regards
<https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif>
Paul Wilkins
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith < <mailto:markzzzsm...@gmail.com>
markzzzsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins < <mailto:paulwilkins...@gmail.com>
paulwilkins...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point.
>
> While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the
> Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all
> men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing.
>
Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session.
> That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an
> unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Paul Wilkins
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes < <mailto:da...@hughes.com.au>
> da...@hughes.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our
>> attention.
>>
>> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very
>> seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an
>> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all
>> parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance to
>> the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further.
>>
>> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have
>> never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and supported.
>> We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other
>> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable
>> for AusNOG events and mailing lists.
>>
>> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not
>> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We
>> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader
>> solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board
>> ...
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> <mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>> <http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog>
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
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> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
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