Paulo Gaspar wrote:
>>And what will you gain?
>
> Having less people blindly following that minority.
Good point. Sometimes it's needed.
>>The first step in *starting* a communication is giving credit to your
>>opponent. If you say he's an asshole, he will never ever listen to you.
>
>
> I did NOT start like that in the commons-logging case... but it did not
> help anyway.
> =:o/
Yeah, that's a necessary condition, but not sufficient :-/
>>What works quite well though, is to come up with something that doesn't
>>negate the needs and use cases of the other, even if they are
>>wrong to you.
>
>
> Believe me: I usually don't miss the difference of needs or even the
> different ways of working, including those that look ugly to me.
>
> That is why I kept defending the co-existence of (the often overlapping)
> Avalon, Turbine and the Commons. Longer ago I even got into the much
> worse war of defending the co-existence of Tomcat 3.3 and Tomcat 4.x.
>
>
> Really, I am aware of the points you are making. I just decided to go
> this way.
> =:o)
Even only the fact that you took a stance on this gives you credit :-)
> I can try to explain why I don't want to change my attitude and why I
> think it is not so bad (if you have the patience).
:-)
> There is some logic
> and reflection behind it:
>
> <global-idealism-part>
>
> The "failure" of my diplomatic skills is not on lacking the ability of
> accepting different POVs and ways of working. My problem is the lack of
> stomach to quietly accept things that I find outrageous (like playing
> dirty or putting personal issues above work quality).
<sigh><nod><sigh>
> I may be forced to put up with stuff like that on some situations, but I
> want to avoid doing that here at Apache-Jakarta as well as on other
> settings of my life.
>
> I think the world will be a better place if people don't suffocate their
> own capacity to be outraged. Remember that so many of the historic/heroic
> acts we admire today, which shaped our world in a positive direction,
> were committed by people that felt outraged at something.
I hope you didn't miss the flamewar I had with brother Jon ;-)
> Wouldn't the evolution of the world be smoother if more people got
> outraged more often and show it, instead of waiting for a bad situation
> to become unbearable and then explode on a more violent (re)action.
Well, if you out it in these terms, yes.
> We should be tolerant towards differences, but should we be tolerant
> towards unfairness and injustice?
If it doesn't touch me directly, yes, we should.
It's just a waste of time to be outraged on things on which I don't have
influence... but ok, I get the point.
> I see a lot of values being lost on our world ruled by pseudo-diplomacy
> and lawyers (as opposite to being ruled by respect and justice).
Values are what you are, how you live, not only what you say.
This is why having a bad temper may sometimes give a bad example.
But I still understand, there is a time for all these emotions.
(sombody seems to be stuck to only one position though ;-)
> </global-idealism-part>
>
>
> <more-down-to-earth-part>
>
> Besides, I believe that my "bad temper" already had positive results
> several times.
>
> People with (IMO) really bad attitude are still a minority but sometimes
> they seem to hijack entire debates. Sometimes the only way to stop that
> is to disturb the general passivity of the group. Sometimes I manage to
> help doing just that.
Yeah, sometimes it's really needed.
> I think that acting this way already played a part on a not-so-bad
> resolution for several past incidents. Such resolution resulted on
> better software, which is good both for me and for most of us.
>
> </more-down-to-earth-part>
>
>
> See? It is an option.
Yup.
There's a time for peace and a time for war.
Now, it's time to code ;-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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